The Kingdom of Heaven

[Dmartin]

Hello Giulia,

Dmartin: Also, hello to everyone who has had NDEs/other experiences. Giulia and I moved our discussion to this forum. If you would like to catch up on it you can read prior in Say Hello the subject is Hello from Michigan. In case any were to wonder, I will tell you that I'm a woman and I'm in my mid 60s.

Giulia you asked me, how do I feel my dad's willingness to come and find me from Heaven may have impacted the success of this after-death meeting? Good question. While I was telling him about seeing Mom in Heaven, he was very excited even astounded and anxious. Right when I finished, he told me he will try to find me in Heaven (that implied curiosity if he did find me, then he would have, which would have been done in his willingness). Then I told him, if it is in God's will, you will. I seen he instantly believed and understood that as any emotion he had or would have even his willingness was gone. He became completely relaxed and calm. He clearly realized he didn't have to try to find me that God will bring him to me (He knows where I am on earth and in Heaven). I made it where there was no other way for him to understand actually finding me. Thus, my dad's willingness had no impact at all in the success of this after-death meeting. The impact in the total success of this after-death meeting was done by God in His will. I just had a thought that is kind of funny. My Dad was one that if anyone could do something for him (even if he wanted to do it) he was all for someone else doing it for him. This one act of God topped them all!

Dmartin: As to what else you said, I realize you didn't say that I did. I already understood you said that as a suggestion, and the following you said is a further explation of that; "It can be very challenging to remember all the details and knowings that come to a person who has a NDE, for instance, because our physical brains are not equipped to retain that sort of information or even speak it in words." I should have told you what I'm about to say is on a different level. Sorry for misunderstanding. I wish it wasn't easy to talk past each other. What you said is correct. You may not realize to the extent that you are. If what you said was possible that would be in with having confidence in the flesh. You understand that it is not possible. You count it as a loss. That is correct.

Dmartin: I told you what I said is in a different (higher) level it continues in gain. This is where we can equip our brains to retain (even if we haven't remembered it all) that sort of information even speaking it in words. Now what you have counted as loss I understand it as have counted loss for Christ and that we may be found in Him continuing to gain in our confidence being of the same mind. I put more understanding in parenthesis...

Dmartin: 1 Phil:9-14, and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith: that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection of the dead. Not that I have already attained (to the resurrection from the dead, he has), or am already perfected (he is); but I press on (from after both), that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me (after both). Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended (both); but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to (after) those things which are ahead, I press forward toward the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Vs 16, "Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained (both), let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind." Vs 20-21, "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ., who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able event to subdue all things to Himself."

Dmartin: I've told you that I've not had a NDE. I've not told you that I have already attained both above. That my death experience was not in medical/other. It was in Christ Jesus.

[anthonychipoletti]

Dmartin, thank you so much for trusting us with your wonderful experiences !!

If I understand the righteousness which is from God by faith, then I am freely choosing to become Christ Jesus.

That is, in the eyes of God, my identity as Anthony has nothing which I would want God to see, so Anthony dies.

There is nothing that Anthony has done nor experienced which I want God to see, so I am resurrected with Jesus.

I believe we have freedom to identify ourselves and define our experiences, so this is my free choice. [To allow God to see who I am in Christ, and to allow Christ to be who I am in God's eyes.]

ALL the other ideas and sources would simply confuse me

[Dmartin]

Hello anthonychipoletti,

Dmartin, thank you so much for trusting us with your wonderful experiences !!

Dmartin: You're welcome

If I understand the righteousness which is from God by faith, then I am freely choosing to become Christ Jesus.

That is, in the eyes of God, my identity as Anthony has nothing which I would want God to see, so Anthony dies.

There is nothing that Anthony has done nor experienced which I want God to see, so I am resurrected with Jesus.

Dmartin: Sorry, I'm a bit confused here. I think you didn't mean to say you become Christ Jesus because you say you are resurrected with Jesus. I'd say you know that Christ Jesus Himself is our Lord and Savior.

I believe we have freedom to identify ourselves and define our experiences, so this is my free choice. [To allow God to see who I am in Christ, and to allow Christ to be who I am in God's eyes.]

Dmartin: Are you only wanting me to understand what you're telling me about is your belief? Or are you wanting to debate about our different experiences?

ALL the other ideas and sources would simply confuse me

Dmartin: I do not any more rely on myself/anyone else for interpreting Scripture. Scripture alone interprets itself in the truth it is God's word I hear and do. The Apostle Paul made it clear to hearers and doers of the word there is counting losses. Knowing and understanding the scriptures hasn't changed. No ideas and/or sources are needed. There is total freedom from that so there is no confusion.

[Dmartin]

Dmartin: Sorry I thought my response to your last comment was before the bard quote, it is after that at the end of the post.

[anthonychipoletti]

Dmartin, I am happy that you have no confusion

I, however, am a confused old man

As Giulia describes, we who have had an NDE, or whatever these experiences actually are in God's eyes, we often cannot remember exactly what happened ??

In 1945, my experience included what I believe was an intangible awareness of my Uncle Neal who was killed about a year before my experience.

I felt that Jesus was with my uncle and with my spirit, however only my uncle seemed to communicate.

I felt Jesus was communicating with my uncle's spirit, and my uncle's spirit was communicating with me.

I believed in Christ and practiced Catholicism without really understanding Scriptures or any religion ??

You may not believe me, however, you have shown me ALL I need to know about Christ and who I am !!

I understood you to say your NDE was not medical, it was:

Dmartin: I've told you that I've not had a NDE. I've not told you that I have already attained both above. That my death experience was not in medical/other. It was in Christ Jesus.

Sorry I am too confused to EVER go beyond this: Jesus is the spiritual presence who is seen by God as Son.

Jesus gives me his spirit, of God's Son, who Jesus is, so I have no need for my human identity, it is nothing.

I also have no need for any human experience other than to accept the free gift from God to be in Christ.

NOTHING ELSE WILL EVER MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME ABOUT BEING HUMAN !! Only these last two statements.

[anthonychipoletti]

Dmartin ?? As I said, I am only a confused old man With your permission, I will completely pass on your words below !! I AM A VERY SIMPLE PERSON !! THERE IS NOTHING ELSE IN LIFE WHICH I NEED EXCEPT:

Anthony Chipoletti: Jesus is the spiritual presence who is seen by God as Son.

Jesus gives me his spirit, of God's Son, who Jesus is, so I have no need for my human identity, it is nothing.

I also have no need for any human experience other than to accept the free gift from God to be in Christ.

Dmartin: Sorry, I'm a bit confused here. I think you didn't mean to say you become Christ Jesus because you say you are resurrected with Jesus. I'd say you know that Christ Jesus Himself is our Lord and Savior.


Dmartin: Are you only wanting me to understand what you're telling me about is your belief? Or are you wanting to debate about our different experiences?


Dmartin: I do not any more rely on myself/anyone else for interpreting Scripture. Scripture alone interprets itself in the truth it is God's word I hear and do. The Apostle Paul made it clear to hearers and doers of the word there is counting losses. Knowing and understanding the scriptures hasn't changed. No ideas and/or sources are needed. There is total freedom from that so there is no confusion.

[Dmartin]

Hi anthonychipoletti,

Dmartin: Sorry for the delay. I hope this post will get posted. I've had a hard time getting to this part to post a reply. Lol.

Dmartin, I am happy that you have no confusion

Dmartin: Thank you. It is like Jesus' parable on earning the penny I'm on the side it took many years to get it:)

I, however, am a confused old man

As Giulia describes, we who have had an NDE, or whatever these experiences actually are in God's eyes, we often cannot remember exactly what happened ??

Dmartin: That you, Giulia, and others, often cannot remember exactly what happened doesn't make confusion. Yes, these experiences are actually in God's eyes-He sees them-He knows them even the loved ones/others who were in them sees and knows them. That these experiences are also in His and your loved ones/others remembrance not just yours. What is important is that God and all of them hasn't forgot anything that happened with every one of you. What you/anyone have remembered or forgotten is known in Heaven. So, don't be concerned with what is forgotten you have it anyway just as you have what is remembered.

In 1945, my experience included what I believe was an intangible awareness of my Uncle Neal who was killed about a year before my experience.

I felt that Jesus was with my uncle and with my spirit, however only my uncle seemed to communicate.

I felt Jesus was communicating with my uncle's spirit, and my uncle's spirit was communicating with me.

I believed in Christ and practiced Catholicism without really understanding Scriptures or any religion ??

Dmartin: Your experience with Jesus and your uncle was real. We all come to Jesus through the Father like a little child starting out knowing nothing. Whether Christ was preached to us in a/any doctrine of man (yours was Catholicism, mine was Baptist) which was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (I had a few experiences here before so I know what you mean) or He is preached to us in truth this is in being born again starting out not knowing anything in truth. Either way Christ is preached.

You may not believe me, however, you have shown me ALL I need to know about Christ and who I am !!

Dmartin: Yes, I do! I'm very happy for you!

I understood you to say your NDE was not medical, it was:

Dmartin: I've told you that I've not had a NDE. I've not told you that I have already attained both above. That my death experience was not in medical/other. It was in Christ Jesus.

Sorry I am too confused to EVER go beyond this: Jesus is the spiritual presence who is seen by God as Son.

Dmartin: That's ok. I just showed what I mean my death experience is in with this Scripture I quoted. That this death experience being raised from the dead in Christ (I have part in the first resurrection) applies to me. Like the Apostle Paul said is what I did I acknowledged that to a degree so now, "I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus," Phil 3:14.

Jesus gives me his spirit, of God's Son, who Jesus is, so I have no need for my human identity, it is nothing.

I also have no need for any human experience other than to accept the free gift from God to be in Christ.

NOTHING ELSE WILL EVER MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME ABOUT BEING HUMAN !! Only these last two statements.

Dmartin: I agree, though, we also have to continue in this world. Jesus overcame the world. We continue in Him, and we follow after Him and so we have too! I'm also aware that being human in this world cannot be without sin. In Him we do not have to obey sin but if we do, we have Him as cloak for them.

[anthonychipoletti]

Dmartin, it will probably take me a month to understand everything we have written here so far

It has taken 84 years just to realize that I am free to identify my human self and define my experiences !!

I know what to do with my human identity and experiences and that is what you helped me understand !!

[Dmartin]

Dmartin, it will probably take me a month to understand everything we have written here so far

Dmartin: anthonychipoletti, well, you are off to a great start. You are not confused!

It has taken 84 years just to realize that I am free to identify my human self and define my experiences !!

I know what to do with my human identity and experiences and that is what you helped me understand !!

Dmartin: I am so very happy for you!! And I have enjoyed helping you to understand!!

[Giulia]

Hello, Dmartin.

Thanks for clarifying your point and for your valuable contribution to the discussion of NDEs.

I am not quite sure we are saying the same things regarding religion and Christianity.

My understanding is that the various world religions have something deeply in common, such as the Golden Rule that we are meant to treat others in the same way we would like to be treated ourselves and other universal laws. At the same time, I believe that humans have overlooked and often torn apart the critical meaning of the core beliefs religions share. Religions have led to misunderstanding, power struggles, wars and evil.

This having been said, I understand the words "faith in Christ" are meaningful to you, and I respect this. On the other hand, I feel the historical "Christ" is a mixture of human faulty records and different interpretations and that the word "faith", in particular, is often used to mean wishful thinking: based on my understanding, in order to work as it is supposed to, "faith" should equal the idea of a full expectation.

I share your interest in NDEs and, for example, I am intrigued by Mellen-Thomas Benedict's experience. When, during his NDE, Mellen asks God about religions, God replies "I do not care!" This, coupled with Mellen's full recovery from terminal brain cancer after being dead for hours, suggests that the Universal Laws related to Divine Consciousness are indeed of a higher level, but not necessarily related to one single religious approach.

Hello Giulia,

Dmartin: Also, hello to everyone who has had NDEs/other experiences. Giulia and I moved our discussion to this forum. If you would like to catch up on it you can read prior in Say Hello the subject is Hello from Michigan. In case any were to wonder, I will tell you that I'm a woman and I'm in my mid 60s.

Giulia you asked me, how do I feel my dad's willingness to come and find me from Heaven may have impacted the success of this after-death meeting? Good question. While I was telling him about seeing Mom in Heaven, he was very excited even astounded and anxious. Right when I finished, he told me he will try to find me in Heaven (that implied curiosity if he did find me, then he would have, which would have been done in his willingness). Then I told him, if it is in God's will, you will. I seen he instantly believed and understood that as any emotion he had or would have even his willingness was gone. He became completely relaxed and calm. He clearly realized he didn't have to try to find me that God will bring him to me (He knows where I am on earth and in Heaven). I made it where there was no other way for him to understand actually finding me. Thus, my dad's willingness had no impact at all in the success of this after-death meeting. The impact in the total success of this after-death meeting was done by God in His will. I just had a thought that is kind of funny. My Dad was one that if anyone could do something for him (even if he wanted to do it) he was all for someone else doing it for him. This one act of God topped them all!

Dmartin: As to what else you said, I realize you didn't say that I did. I already understood you said that as a suggestion, and the following you said is a further explation of that; "It can be very challenging to remember all the details and knowings that come to a person who has a NDE, for instance, because our physical brains are not equipped to retain that sort of information or even speak it in words." I should have told you what I'm about to say is on a different level. Sorry for misunderstanding. I wish it wasn't easy to talk past each other. What you said is correct. You may not realize to the extent that you are. If what you said was possible that would be in with having confidence in the flesh. You understand that it is not possible. You count it as a loss. That is correct.

Dmartin: I told you what I said is in a different (higher) level it continues in gain. This is where we can equip our brains to retain (even if we haven't remembered it all) that sort of information even speaking it in words. Now what you have counted as loss I understand it as have counted loss for Christ and that we may be found in Him continuing to gain in our confidence being of the same mind. I put more understanding in parenthesis...

Dmartin: 1 Phil:9-14, and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith: that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection of the dead. Not that I have already attained (to the resurrection from the dead, he has), or am already perfected (he is); but I press on (from after both), that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me (after both). Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended (both); but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to (after) those things which are ahead, I press forward toward the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Vs 16, "Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained (both), let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind." Vs 20-21, "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ., who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able event to subdue all things to Himself."

Dmartin: I've told you that I've not had a NDE. I've not told you that I have already attained both above. That my death experience was not in medical/other. It was in Christ Jesus.