Mission Statment

click me to Open or Close
"This is a non-profit, non-denominational and apolitical online discussion site, designed to support research and study of consciousness experiences, such as near death experiences and other spiritually transformative experiences, support experiencers and spread the message of love, unity and peace around the world. We do not allow proselytizing or bullying (please refer to our Joining Rules). We welcome and encourage people of all backgrounds, nationalities, countries and/or religions to bring up any topic they feel fit for this place and to read and participate in the conversations held here, in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere."
Unusual Experiences, Philosophy,Hinduism, Buddhism, Reincarnation
9 posts Page 1 of 1
From the near death experience accounts I have read, I get the notion that love is the most important thing for mankind. Loving each other, being kind, etc. Ok, I agree this is a very important thing, but it's not everything that is to know about the human condition IMHO.

What about righteousness? Imagine for example someone whose country is attacked and then goes to a war to defend his country. He's not being loving etc, he's actually supposed to kill his enemies, and he's doing the right thing. Imagine all the people who fought the nazis during the war, or people struggling against oppressive governments, or people who wouldn't dare doing something considered morally wrong.

I think the two things are important, love, but also righteousness. I also get the impression from some near death experiences that God is too condescending with people, that they are never judged, that they can do no wrong etc etc. I will cite one example: in his book Proof of Heaven, the author, doctor Eben Alexander, tells that God loved him so much and that there was nothing wrong he could do. But he's actually done at least one thing that he should have repented for.

He destroyed the woman's acoustic neuroma, a benign brain tumor, burned it to oblivion with focused beams of radiation. That's what he set out to do, and that's what he did. And yes, there had been postoperative inflammation, and yes, the surgery had left the woman with permanent paralysis on the left side of her face, but remember we're talking about brain surgery here, not splinter removal. Bad things can happen that are completely out of your control.

The woman's lawsuit, however, didn't accuse him of doing something he shouldn't have done. It accused him instead of not doing something he should have done. Specifically, it accused him of not informing the woman that permanent facial paralysis might result from the operation.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/in ... e-prophet/

So there goes the problem. Sometimes I tried to use this thing of loving everybody but I found out that love is something too special for you to give it to anyone. People will abuse you if you do that, and I don't think God wants anyone to be abused.

Coments, please.
Part of the problem as I see it is that it is difficult to define love. In this case I think we can use a type of Platonic definition, at least it seems a helpful way of looking at it. Platonic love as I understand it is a kind of love that recognizes the good that is 'behind' a person. It sees the beautiful and lovable and perfect image of God in which we were created to put it in more or less Christian words.

So, yes, "we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and at the same time; No, it doesn't matter to God one iota.
We are human, humans make mistakes, God was counting on it all along. We simply can't learn without making mistakes.

Can a plant grow without casting a shadow? So the plant can be said to have sinned (it doesn't reach its full potential because some shadow is thrown on itself and other plants). Do you see how ridiculous it would be to hold the plant accountable for such a shortcoming? We are more than plants, right? So, yes sin is a waste but we need to use it to learn. Not for shame and useless self-castigation, but to turn to the light and just grow.

In this case Eben Alexander may well have made a mistake, that proves he's human. My kids make mistakes all the time, sometimes it hurts me financially or emotionally, but I see they are learning and growing and don't love them any less for it. The very thought makes me feel sick! Like it says in the bible, god knows what is in the heart. That's what counts; are you motivated by a spirit of Love? In that case you cant be expected to do better. According to Jesus that's what its all about. And I am convinced he was right.

The case of lets say IS warriors seems to me slightly more complicated. In an ideal world there would be no need for war. We are not in an ideal world but we do need to plot a path to get there. Its thinkable to me that violence may be an effective method to get there. Particularly in some cases, especially in defense of a community. OTOH, maybe I'm wrong here. The trade off is a very dangerous one, we are trading spiritual virtue for bodily survival. I don't know if that is always a good idea. To me the spiritual is more valuable. Maybe the Amish are right!

OTOH I know I will definitely kill to protect others around me. As IS is a threat in certain locales I would kill them if required to protect others I care about. I would still not hate them though because I know that they too are on a learning path and need to come in to the light. They are doing what they believe is good. All the same I believe it would be better if they were stopped from killing and harming even more people (not to mention the generations of repressed children their regime would produce).

As to the abuse as the world's 'reward' for love; it is also important to love yourself in equal measure, that will give you the strength to stand your ground in spite of loving others.
Thank you for your reply, Dennis.

Concerning the IS, I don't consider that they are going throught their learning path, neither I think that they are doing what they believe is good. They can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned; if God decides to have any mercy on them, that's up to God, but considering the evil things that they've done, they have a lot to pay for. If everyone is equally rewarded, then what's the point in being good? You can be good or you can be evil, in the end it will all be the same.

About Mr Eben Alexander maybe it wasn't a good example after all because we can't know for sure if he deliberatelly lied.
I think the greatest part of the reward is who you become by acting in a positive way. By acting in an evil way, you become evil and automatically reap the warped 'rewards' of that lifestyle.
By acting in a good way, you become Good and reap the rewards that go along with that.
Think of it like exercise; by exercising you become fit. The logical reward for exercise is fitness. By slouching on a couch all day you become a couch potato. You don't need God or anyone else to give you any more punishment for that. Just being a couch potato is punishment in itself (or so it seems to me!).
Ultimately Gods supreme justice is in setting the rules up so that "good begets good and evil begets evil", the rest is history. Some might call this the Law of Karma, its the same thing, you reap what you sow. That is crime and punishment in one.
Yes I agree with you on that one...

The mistery of the afterlife is still a mistery and will always be until we leave this life.... But there are always consequences for our actions.

Stalin was a mass murderer and an extremally cruel and sick man... but he ended his days not being able to trust in his own shadow. I bet that he died and went to hell, maybe not as a direct act of punishment, but because of the consequences of what he did during his life.
Joshua wrote: Concerning the IS, I don't consider that they are going throught their learning path, neither I think that they are doing what they believe is good. They can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned; if God decides to have any mercy on them, that's up to God, but considering the evil things that they've done, they have a lot to pay for. If everyone is equally rewarded, then what's the point in being good? You can be good or you can be evil, in the end it will all be the same.

I think they will learn the hard way, what they will have to learn. And I'm convinced that they think that what they do is the right thing. They are already living in hell right now, here on this earth, otherwise they wouldn't have the need to do things the way they do them. Many of them are lead by leaders that just use them like ragdolls, and make them believe that they are fighting for a good cause. (As in all wars.) And wars have brought atrocities with them since they exist.
If what the experiencers tell us is correct, they will judge themselves the same way as they judged others, and they will have to experience everything what they caused to their fellow men, when the day comes. And they cannot lie to themselves. So justice will be done one way or another.
The responses to Joshua concerns seem spiritual, wise and realistic as a whole ...bk
I think a definition of love would be helping yourself and others.
Love has to do with giving.
A father was teaching his little son to be less afraid ..... to have more courage.

"Jump," he said, "and I'll catch you."

And the little boy trusted him .... and the little boy jumped.

And when his father caught him, the boy felt filled with love.

And when the father didn't, the boy was filled with something else .... something... more :


Finished the movie titled "Secrets of War." Love comes in infinite gradations. More often than we care, love requires compromise of self.
9 posts Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests