Mission Statment

click me to Open or Close
"This is a non-profit, non-denominational and apolitical online discussion site, designed to support research and study of consciousness experiences, such as near death experiences and other spiritually transformative experiences, support experiencers and spread the message of love, unity and peace around the world. We do not allow proselytizing or bullying (please refer to our Joining Rules). We welcome and encourage people of all backgrounds, nationalities, countries and/or religions to bring up any topic they feel fit for this place and to read and participate in the conversations held here, in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere."
Out-of-Body Experience
37 posts Page 1 of 1
I am posting this account in the OBE section, because the major event I will be reporting is an Out of the Body Experience. However, in order to place this experience in context, I will also follow up with two further experiences, one of which happened during a dream and one in meditation. I would also say that all three of them are what I normally refer to as After Death Communication experiences, thee ADCs involving the same person.

This is one of the most touching OBE events I have ever experienced; the one that literally changed my life, as it allowed me to realise that we are not really separate from our loved ones on the so-called “other side”. I had this experience around 3 a.m. on Monday, 29 August 1994 (at the time, I had just turned 33).

I had been experiencing OBEs over the past three years, and had also had some very comforting meetings with my paternal grandfather, whom I had never got to meet in the physical world, as he had died 4 years before by birth. But till then, it had always felt as if he had met me half-way, so to speak. In fact, I had been regularly practicing OBEs on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, and had gradually switched from curiosity about the technical aspects and possibilities associated with the OBE state to a more spiritual approach, aimed at getting evidence of life continuing after death. Ever since my OBEs took a more spiritual turn, my grandfather seemed to become my mentor, and would hardly ever fail to meet me when I looked for him.

But here is what happened with Sabrina.

Over the period 8-14 August, 1994, I spent my first week at the Arthur Findlay College in Stansted (England). This was my first in-depth approach with Spiritualism and professional mediumship. Upon my return to the office on the following Monday, I learnt that the health conditions of Sabrina, the 14 year old daughter of one of my colleagues, who during that summer had suddenly started suffering from a rare disease affecting her key organs (heart, lungs, liver etc.) had become very serious, and on Wednesday the 17th we received the sad news that she had suddenly passed away in hospital. The previous night, she had said goodnight to her dad, asking him to come and see her as soon as possible the next morning. But she didn't make it through the night, and only the night-shift nurse was with her when she suddenly felt something strange was happening to her, and asked her to please hold her tight.

I was awfully upset by this event. I had only spoken to Sabrina once over the phone, before going to Stansted, as I happened to be at the switchboard when she had called for her dad. But I was now torn by the very urgent, pressing feeling that I could offer her dad evidence that his daughter was alive and well, by using my OBE skills. Little did I realise how difficult it might prove to talk about such out of the ordinary experiences. Her dad was due back to work on 29 August and, during the week preceding his return to the office, this urgency to go and see Sabrina became increasingly pressing and I could hardly think about anything else. This was a strange, very powerful feeling, which I was to experience in future again and again, but it also was the very first time I was faced with such an occurrence, and the first time I was conceiving to astral travel on somebody else's behalf.

I tried every night, that last week, and failed every single attempt.

On the Sunday evening, I found myself still facing the problem. I HAD to see Sabrina that night, whatever it may take.

That night I spent the first three hours turning round in my bed, desperately trying to relax and achieve a long enough hypnagogic state that may allow me to consciously leave my body, but to no avail. I was not sufficiently experienced in this field, and neither was I aware of how the urgency dictated by grief or sorrow could actually hinder this kind of experiences. I was extremely frustrated.

Around midnight I actually succeeded in leaving the body, but found myself facing a rather unexpected and unsettling experience, as, whilst being disturbed by extremely strong vibrations, very much like an electric current, I was shocked to see a full-size Christ hanging on the cross emerging from the floor of my bedroom. This scared me and caused me to give up for the time being. (I later realised I was being challenged by some Sunday-School talk about Afterlife being a taboo topic).

However, around 3.00 a.m., I suddenly found myself out of the body again, although this time I was in a totally different environment, and for the first time in my life I was unaware of vibrations and experienced no fear. I wasn't in my bedroom, and I wasn't in that familiar “half-way” environment where my granddad used to meet me. I was somewhere else, and I was face to face with Sabrina.

She appeared slightly younger than 14, and in a state of mind which at the time I would have described as slightly confused. With hindsight, having visited what some call the Afterlife and others call the Otherlife again under totally different circumstances, I now understand what led me to think that Sabrina might have been confused. She was definitely not confused: I WAS CONFUSED.

I would have expected her to welcome me with terrific enthusiasm, but she did not display any special excitement. I asked her whether she was OK, and she said she was. I asked her whether she had any message she wished me to convey to her parents, and got an answer I found again most confusing: «Well, yeah! No, not at the moment!» (How could that be? with me there who was to see her dad the next day?) «You will speak to my mom in some time» (I did not know Sabrina's mom) «but only after you have spoken to a woman who speaks French» (this was the most confusing statement of all. I did not have a clue as to what she may be talking about).

After this brief conversation, Sabrina left, as if there were nothing else she had to say. And here comes another unique aspect characterising this OBE. Even though I had been left on my own, I felt no need, interest or urgency to return to my physical body. I found myself there not really knowing what I was doing and what to do. In the past I had always felt, throughout my OB experiences, the strong need to quickly return to my physical body: something like a psychological elastic band pulling me back. But this time, quite extraordinarily, I seemed to share Sabrina's quiet attitude, and wondered what was going on.

However, after having stood there for a while on my own, I suddenly realised where I was and that I was not supposed to stay there. I was suddenly seized by panic, and, much like a moth wheeling franticly around the light, I convulsively reached out for my physical body and eventually landed in my bed.

Needless to say, when Sabrina's dad returned to work the next day, I was unable to utter a single word about this experience, despite the tremendous excitement over the event. I simply did not know how to approach him.

About 10 days later, I had another scheduled afternoon OBE, during which I tried to see Sabrina again. The moment I left my body, I felt the presence of some kind of angelic being (a woman), taller than me, very beautiful (although I could not actually "see" her), who firmly gave me her arm and slowly accompanied me around something that seemed a bed (although I could not see the occupant), asking me to please speak softly, in order not to wake up Sabrina. She then led me back to my bed, and into my body, where I landed in the gentlest way.

Although I was not very experienced about what happens after death at that time, and had not yet read of the mediumistic accounts that refer to some kind of restorative rest similar to sleep, following death on certain occasions, I concluded Sabrina was asleep and should not be disturbed.

A few days after my first OBE attempt, on 1 September 1994, we were informed at work that a Marketing Assistant had just joined our company. This young woman (who was almost exactly may age, being only 4 days younger than me) was bilingual (Italian-French) and had just returned to Italy after several years spent in France (where she had part of her family), and at the time spent two weekends a month in France on a regular basis. For some strange synchronicity, this girl and I almost immediately started chatting via the company Intranet during breaks, and I happened to mention to her that I experienced OBEs and had just had this terrific one about Sabrina and did not know how to handle the whole issue.

About a month later, P. (the French speaking Marketing Assistant) came to me and told me that Sabrina's father had spoken to her so openly about his recent loss while having coffee together, that she could not resist letting him know that I had something to tell him.

None of this had been planned or even conceived as possible by me beforehand.

So, some 40 days after Sabrina's passing, her dad came to my office to enquire about what "was going on with Sabrina". I was a bit confused. I knew he felt very uneasy in talking about such things, but he immediately helped me by saying that his wife would have very much liked to meet me and, without asking any details about my “experiences”, he asked whether I would like to have lunch with them one day.

And that's what happened. It all came true, exactly as Sabrina had told me, her apparent lack of excitement possibly being due to the fact that "my" excitement had no way of manifesting as quickly as I would have expected or hoped for.

Although we had never met before, Sabrina's mom and I spent several hours together that afternoon. She asked for a full account and shared many memories about her daughter. She also mentioned to me I should be careful not to talk about the subject with her husband too openly, as he was much too emotional and unable to handle the conversation. She mentioned an ADC she had had just had a few days after Sabrina's passing, when, upon waking up one morning, she had clearly heard and felt Sabrina telling her that she was alright, that everything was alright and that everything would be alright.

To integrate this account, I need to mention a dream I had in 2003, and the events that followed.

Since Sabrina passed in 1994, I had always been in touch with her parents at least twice a year, and when my son was born, in 1997, they came over to see us and brought with them a soft toy that had belonged to their daughter (a huge clock) and an attractive and colourful quilt that had belonged to Sabrina's cot.

In 2003, out of the blue, I had a dream of a beautiful 22-year old Sabrina who (as it had happened with other people I had known, or not known, including my paternal grandmother) seemed to have visited me with the very purpose of not only showing me what a beautiful grown-up woman she had become, but also describing what her transition had been like and how difficult it had been for her to assess the exact time at which she had passed away.

In the dream she showed me that one moment she was with the nurse, somehow in need of air, then she described the nurse administering an inhalation therapy to her (something which did not happen on the physical plane) and then she realised she had died, but had to go backwards and forwards in time several times throughout her experience, to try and detect at what time her “death” had actually occurred.

I related this dream to Sabrina's mom, and explained that in my opinion, with this dream out of the blue, Sabrina might have been trying to explain how gentle her transition had been, which ties in with the early afterlife accounts I have read and heard of by many people who have talked about their own death through mediums or in direct communication with their loved ones: in most of the cases I had read or heard of, especially when death had been unexpected, the experiencer had had difficulties realising what was happening immediately, but was made aware of his/her transition very gently.

A few months later, I was again speaking to Sabrina's mom on the phone, and she was telling me how emotional her husband is, and how little they could talk about these subjects together. She also told me that her husband could hardly remember having had any dreams about Sabrina over the 9 years that had elapsed since her death. In the only one he had recalled he had dreamt of holding Sabrina in his arms at the time of her death. He had woken up drenched in sweat.

However, knowing how sorry and guilty he had felt for not having got to the hospital in time that morning, and not having been with her that night, this account really gave me chills, as I realised and suggested to his wife that Sabrina might in fact have managed to get through to him, despite his emotional barrier, and allowed him to be with her on the night he had so much regretted not to have spent with her, to share that crucial time with her, however sad this might have proven. No need to say this very thought brought tears to her eyes, and I had to force back mine.

My most recent meeting with Sabrina occurred in November 2008. I had an inborn interest in mediumship and I had been practicing meditation for several years, but this time her parents had explicitly asked if I could focus on their daughter in meditation. I was amazed at what happened after just a few attempts, as this was a very vivid and emotional ADC. I did not realise at the time what season of the year was approaching, as my work was so busy in those days that I had lost the notion of time. But when I saw Sabrina in meditation, she was dressed in vivid red, and she spoke to me telepathically: she said she was ever so sad for having left her parents so early and she said “she would have liked to hug them with all the Christmases they had had to spend without her”.

I am reporting this with Sabrina’s parents’ permission. By the way, Sabrina’s dad passed away not long ago and I am hoping to hear from the two of them soon.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Very touching story Giulia! Beautiful.
You always have such wonderful posts, Giulia. I am also quite envious of your OBE skills. If you haven't already, you should write a book about them. I'd read it for sure!!
Thank you, Dennis and lkb130. I am glad you liked it.

The one reason I prefer lucid dreaming to OBEs, lkb130, is that, with OBEs, my critical/logical/earthly mind is fully awake, even though I have access to non-physical dimensions. This means that, during the first years I was practising, I had to face the personification of my sad/lonely/sabotaging subpersonalities before I could have a relaxed access to what I was seeking, i.e. meeting with my loved ones on the other side. Unlike lucid dreaming, there wasn’t that dreamy anaesthesia to protect me from the materialisation of earthly fears, whereas in a dreamlike environment everything feels natural and acceptable to me.

In this OBE, even though I was very strongly motivated to find Sabrina, I had to face a full materialization of my ego-related taboos, that is that huge cross emerging from my bedroom floor. Luckily, that turned out to be my last test since I had started practicing four years earlier.

About writing a book, the greatest challenge is editing it in English, lkb130, but I will continue sharing here and I look forward to reading other' people's experiences! :)
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Thanks for sharing. If you have any info on how to become a medium? If that is possible? Please post it.

I am guessing it is something that you may naturally have.

My male cousin who passed away communicated with me in dreams in the past.
michellekia wrote: Thanks for sharing. If you have any info on how to become a medium? If that is possible? Please post it.

I am guessing it is something that you may naturally have.

My male cousin who passed away communicated with me in dreams in the past.


That's an extremely interesting question, michellekia. Would you like to start a new topic about it and about your experiences in this section?
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia,
I just read your story. What a touching and interesting story. I enjoyed reading it.

I wonder how difficult it is for those loved ones on the other side to try to make contact with those of us who don't have the natural ability that you have. Could there be signs from them that we could be missing, or ignoring.
Natalie wrote: I wonder how difficult it is for those loved ones on the other side to try to make contact with those of us who don't have the natural ability that you have. Could there be signs from them that we could be missing, or ignoring.


Hi, Natalie.

Thanks for your words. To be honest, the one natural aspect I believe I have noticed since childhood was just a passionate curiosity about what lies beyond the things I could perceive in everyday reality, such as "is our universe actually expanding", a passion for time travel, changing the past, visiting the future, parallel lives, what happens when we die, and so on.

It is my opinion that there are people who may be naturally gifted as mediums and able, if brought up in an environment that does not discourage this gift and properly trained, to act as intermediaries between incarnates and disincarnates. The reason I believe this is because I have met several over the period I worked as a translator for them.

However, I also believe that we (the universe, our planet, mankind, animals, nature, and so on) are all made out of the same raw material, so to speak, - what we usually refer to as “spirit” - and that we are all able to connect with each other if we are open to communication, motivated, in harmony with each other, not distracted by everyday concerns and not in deep pain or grief. I have found that both deep grief and scepticism can (even though not necessarily) act as a barrier to communication.

In any case, I am quite sure that the stronger the passion for the possibility of staying in touch with our loved ones irrespective of physical death, the stronger the opportunities.

For instance, I have always been fascinated by the accounts describing transition and the afterlife coming from deep trance mediums in the 19th and early 20th century, which have so many things in common with what NDErs report.

About the difficulties in reaching out for us, by disincarnates, in his book The Afterlife Revealed (White Crow Books, 2011), Michael E. Tymn reports that not too long after his death in 1892, George Pellew, who had been a member of the American Society for Psychical Research (or ASPR) started communicating with Dr. Richard Hodgson, the chief investigator for ASPR, through the mediumship of Mrs Leonora Piper. At the time, Hodgson was studying Mrs Piper’s mediumship. During his communication through Mrs Piper, Pellew spoke to Hodgson about the difficulties he met in communicating,

«pointing out that there is a conflict between the spiritual ego, or mind, of the communicating spirit and the material mind or ego of the medium that is very difficult to overcome. He explained that when Piper went into trance, her ego left the body, just as when a person is sleeping, and although her brain is left empty, it is very difficult for the communicating spirit to control it. He also mentioned that it was much easier to communicate with someone in “sympathy” with him, e.g., a friend or relative, than it was to communicate with a skeptical researcher. He said that to those in his sphere, we humans are “sleeping” in the material world and are what to them is a “dream-life.” For them to communicate with us, they have to enter this sleep state, which adds to the confusion».


Now this ties in with an out-of-the-body experience I had one morning in 2012 (a few years before reading Tymn’s book). I had had very little sleep that night, I had got up at 5:30, taken my son to school and done some shopping. So I decided to lie down with my eyes shut for ten minutes before starting work, around 9.00 a.m., when I fell asleep and had this unexpected OBE: I found myself in a setting which looked like a cafe with tables, and sitting next to me was a dear family friend from who had passed away ten years earlier, but had been very much in touch after his death. During that brief meeting, he spoke to me telepathically and conveyed one single and concise sentence which sounded like: «You the “living” spend most of your lives immersed in sleep».

I am quite sure there are many many signals we receive every day in terms of synchronicities, dreams, and all sorts of other means, and that situations such as the one I was going through in those days in 2012, with a close relative not speaking to me, as painful as they may be, are some kind of training ground for us to walk the extra mile and pay extra attention.

I am also comforted by the notion that it might in fact be easier for disincarnates to communicate with friends and relatives, as Pellew is not the only source I have heard this from.

What a fascinating topic!
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
«You the “living” spend most of your lives immersed in sleep».


Exactly! And it isn't the literal "sleep" that most assume it is, but "sleep" in the sense that we cannot (or will not) wake up to our TRUE selves, and are instead wandering around (no doubt most of us trying our best) in this grand illusion called life.

And I do think that in real sleep and dreams are where we can gain the most insights and better understanding of our true surroundings. It takes practice, definitely, because dreams are otherwise quite fleeting with seemingly no sense if disregarded as a means of purging useless information from our mind, which some people believe. (Me, obviously, not being one of them. :P)
I like it that Edgar Cayce didn't simply dismiss dreams, but instead gave it importance and acknowledgment that it ties into the spiritual realm.
Hello Giulia,
Thanks for your reply, this is a fascinating topic.
There may be a number of unusual and strange experiences that most of us may dismiss as coincidences because they don't fit within our definition of "normal", "natural" etc..
We, those of us who have not had these NDEs and OBEs etc don't have anything to hold on to other than faith or the belief in what we hear, what others tell us.
You mention that you have translated for mediums. How were these experiences for you. Did they feel like natural conversations or was there an intense element to them. It must be incredible to witness communication between those here and those on the other side.
prismreverie wrote: And I do think that in real sleep and dreams are where we can gain the most insights and better understanding of our true surroundings. It takes practice, definitely, because dreams are otherwise quite fleeting with seemingly no sense if disregarded as a means of purging useless information from our mind, which some people believe. (Me, obviously, not being one of them. :P)


Thanks for your comments, prismreverie.

One thing I understand works pretty well to enhance dream recall and clarity is simply keeping a diary. One starts by simply writing a line or two each morning, even just to describe how one feels first thing after waking up (some say that drinking a glass of water before getting up helps to rehydrate the body and hence enhance memory too), before the fleeting sensations leave, and, without too much effort, the amount of details that can be retrieved each day increases. It can become time consuming, when your start remembering 5 or 6 whole dreams in full detail every day, but with me, I was able to find very accurate information and/or advice even years after the dream, when I had time for this exercise (which did not last long).

I am quite sure dreams play a major function in helping us process what happens to us in waking life, provided we do not suffer from sleeping disorders, but in my opinion dreams are also one of the best opportunities to gain insight, guidance and eventually meet with disincarnates, especially the last and longest dreams, which come after the “processing” stages.
Many traditions agree that the added value of deliberately increasing our dream awareness is that it can lead to lucid dreaming (having dreams in which you know that you are dreaming), which in turn leads to lucid living, paying extra attention to our daily life and hence have a fuller more meaningful waking existence. Lucid living also ties in with Natalie’s earlier question about paying extra attention to signals and certainly ties in with the opportuinity not to spend our physical waking life "immersed in sleep" ;) .

Natalie wrote: We, those of us who have not had these NDEs and OBEs etc don't have anything to hold on to other than faith or the belief in what we hear, what others tell us.


Well, Natalie, all I can provide is my personal experience and opinion about it. OBEs came into my life in the form of sleep paralysis from age 15 to age 29, simply because I did not have the information that is available today about what was going on. But it was sheer passion, perseverance and curiosity that led me to practice every weekend until I learnt to somehow control OBEs, along with a what I deemed a healthy “St. Thomas” approach, that is gain my own evidence about what other people reported.

Natalie wrote: You mention that you have translated for mediums. How were these experiences for you. Did they feel like natural conversations or was there an intense element to them. It must be incredible to witness communication between those here and those on the other side.


As I suggested to michellekia, I feel that professional mediumship deserves a dedicated topic. Maybe I can start one, based on your query and michellekia’s, and then others can join in and share their own experience. How about that?
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia wrote: I am quite sure dreams play a major function in helping us process what happens to us in waking life, provided we do not suffer from sleeping disorders, but in my opinion dreams are also one of the best opportunities to gain insight, guidance and eventually meet with disincarnates, especially the last and longest dreams, which come after the “processing” stages. 
Many traditions agree that the added value of deliberately increasing our dream awareness is that it can lead to lucid dreaming (having dreams in which you know that you are dreaming), which in turn leads to lucid living, paying extra attention to our daily life and hence have a fuller more meaningful waking existence. Lucid living also ties in with Natalie’s earlier question about paying extra attention to signals and certainly ties in with the opportuinity not to spend our physical waking life "immersed in sleep"  .


I have had a few incidences with lucid dreams, but definitely not as much as I'd like. :P (Mostly from my lack of focus and dedication. XP) When I was more headstrong and practiced daily to be more aware, the lucid dreams increased dramatically. I have in a normal year about 5-6 lucid dreams, but with a conscious effort to be more aware, that number would jump up to 2-3 lucid dreams per week if I was dedicated enough.
And I do agree that dreams/lucid dreams are where we can better communicate with our loved ones that have passed away. I remember one in particular that my Mom was in the house, and I knew she shouldn't be there, but I couldn't remember why. Then she came up to me with this knowing sad smile on her face, and hugged me. I could feel her hug in my dream, and as soon as she did that I automatically knew. I woke up right after that with tears on my face, and I could still feel her hug. It was both amazing and heartbreaking at the same time.

Giulia wrote: But it was sheer passion, perseverance and curiosity that led me to practice every weekend until I learnt to somehow control OBEs, along with a what I deemed a healthy “St. Thomas” approach, that is gain my own evidence about what other people reported.


If you wouldn't mind, would you be able to post a rundown of your practice technique, on the obe thread for those of us interested? : )
I have researched some but it is always nice to hear from an individuals account what works best for them. I would greatly appreciate it!
Giulia, I would love for you to start a dedicated topic on professional mediumship, please do. It sounds very interesting
Natalie wrote: Giulia, I would love for you to start a dedicated topic on professional mediumship, please do. It sounds very interesting


Here it is, Natalie: http://nderf.me/post6664.html#p6664
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
prismreverie wrote: I have had a few incidences with lucid dreams, but definitely not as much as I'd like. (Mostly from my lack of focus and dedication. XP) When I was more headstrong and practiced daily to be more aware, the lucid dreams increased dramatically. I have in a normal year about 5-6 lucid dreams, but with a conscious effort to be more aware, that number would jump up to 2-3 lucid dreams per week if I was dedicated enough.


Congratulations, prismreverie. That shows how valuable practice is.

prismreverie wrote: And I do agree that dreams/lucid dreams are where we can better communicate with our loved ones that have passed away. I remember one in particular that my Mom was in the house, and I knew she shouldn't be there, but I couldn't remember why. Then she came up to me with this knowing sad smile on her face, and hugged me. I could feel her hug in my dream, and as soon as she did that I automatically knew. I woke up right after that with tears on my face, and I could still feel her hug. It was both amazing and heartbreaking at the same time.


What a beautiful and touching experience, prismreverie. Thank you so much for sharing it. Had it been my dream, I would have concluded that my Mom IS in the house anyway, but I am normally unable to see her when I am wearing my waking time reduction valve.

Could it have been a lightly lucid dream that then became fully lucid when you “knew” what was happening?

The theory I tend to have about the fact that in ordinary dreams or only lightly lucid dreams we find the presence of deceased loved ones natural, or, as in the first part of your dream, unexplainable but you could not remember why, is indeed that, in the deepest stages of sleep, we may not only be processing daily events (such as past memories with our loved ones), but also spending time (I know that time is a confusing term to use) with our loved ones on the so-called other side. This would explain the generally shared idea that time heals grief. In my opinion the real reason time tends to make grief for the physical loss of a loved one more bearable is not simply a matter of resignation, but a result of the time we even only unconsciously spend with our disincarnate loved ones while asleep. I realise I am using simplistic words here, but I find it easier to explain. This would work even with atheists, agnostics and whoever does not believe in the survival of our personal identity after death, as it would be happening behind the scenes, without us making any effort at all and without conflicting with any specific belief.

prismreverie wrote: If you wouldn't mind, would you be able to post a rundown of your practice technique, on the obe thread for those of us interested? : )
I have researched some but it is always nice to hear from an individuals account what works best for them. I would greatly appreciate it!

Well, I used to resort to the wake-up-go-back-to-bed technique, which I had accidentally discovered when working at night and then taking a nap before waking up. I would get up after a reasonable number of hours’ sleep (say 4) when I was still in need of more, spend some time reading about lucid dreaming or OBEs or NDEs and actually planning what I wanted to do once I fell asleep. In those days, I would even have a cup of coffee, as it certainly did not interfere with falling asleep, but it did help keeping my critical/logical mind awake. Then I went back to bed and rehearsed my plan for a lucid dream or an OBE.

More recently, I have accidentally stumbled in what I call the double-alarm technique. I had to keep a double alarm when I drove my son to school, and I had one go off at 6:00 a.m. and one at 6:10 a.m., just in case I fell asleep after the first alarm. I found that early morning was the best possible time to become lucid or have an OBE. Possibly because of the pressure of knowing I only had 10 more minutes to sleep, and because the second alarm was sure to wake me up in the very middle of a vivid dream, some of my most exciting experiences happened at that time, or even immediately after the second alarm, in the event that I had accidentally set it on a holiday. One more reason this technique worked, was because I had to physically switch the alarm off, which involved an extra requirement to wake up slightly.

I have also happened to have instant results when I decided to spend the whole day conducting reality checks, that is either using any slightly anomalous situation during the day to question whether I was dreaming, so that I would automatically do the same thing while dreaming, or by carrying out tests such as reading a piece of text and then re-reading it to check if it had changed, or turning off the light and then switching it on again, or looking at my hands and then looking at them again, the principle being the same. The dreaming mind appears to be unable to instantly reproduce the same text, the same hands or a lit room after it has created a version of it in the dark.

I hope that was not too boring.

I’d love to hear about other techniques that have worked for others. If the dreaming part of this topic turns out to be long and specific, we can always split it away and create an ad hoc topic on dreaming.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia wrote:
Could it have been a lightly lucid dream that then became fully lucid when you “knew” what was happening?

The theory I tend to have about the fact that in ordinary dreams or only lightly lucid dreams we find the presence of deceased loved ones natural, or, as in the first part of your dream, unexplainable but you could not remember why, is indeed that, in the deepest stages of sleep, we may not only be processing daily events (such as past memories with our loved ones), but also spending time (I know that time is a confusing term to use) with our loved ones on the so-called other side. This would explain the generally shared idea that time heals grief. In my opinion the real reason time tends to make grief for the physical loss of a loved one more bearable is not simply a matter of resignation, but a result of the time we even only unconsciously spend with our disincarnate loved ones while asleep. I realise I am using simplistic words here, but I find it easier to explain. This would work even with atheists, agnostics and whoever does not believe in the survival of our personal identity after death, as it would be happening behind the scenes, without us making any effort at all and without conflicting with any specific belief.


It could have been, because I did have that faint awareness that "in reality" I should not be seeing my Mom standing in the kitchen. But the why eluded me. Then when she hugged me, the realization hit me that I was dreaming, and her presence there was overwhelming, as if she were really there.

And maybe that's true, Giulia. Because sometimes I will have a dream about her, and it will be just that. But then in a very few select dreams, I could swear it's actually her visiting me, and it does help with the pain of her being passed over to the other side.

Giulia wrote: I hope that was not too boring.


Not at all! Thank you so much Giulia! I ate up every word. : ) This has gotten me really excited to start practicing and dedicating myself to this goal again.
I will start with the dream journal again (I used to do one and then slowly ended up fading from that, unfortunately), and be more studious on the daily reality checks. I have never heard about the double-alarm technique, but it makes sense because I realized when I had my most amazing lucid dreams, it was when I woke up briefly right before I had to get up and then went back to sleep until I really had to wake up. :P
And a method I've tried with some success, I believe is the Michael Raduga method... to remain laying in bed upon waking up, don't "move" or open your eyes, and gently rotate between three techniques: I use the phantom wriggling, rotation, and visualization. I feel as if it would produce better results if I kept trying, instead of doing it hardcore for a couple of weeks, and then stopping for whatever reason. ;)

Thanks again Giulia! This will help tremendously. : )
I'm sure you would have no trouble editing your book in English, Giulia. The world needs it! Your publisher will polish it to perfection after you're done.

There is so much to digest in this thread, but one question I had was regarding sleep cycles. I've always heard that it takes 90 minutes to go through an entire cycle (forgive me if that's not exactly correct), so I've often wondered how I could dream when I've gone back to sleep for 10 minutes or so - when "they" say that dreams only occur after a longer period of sleep. My question is - do you think there a sweet spot for lucid dreaming or OBE's within this cycle? You know, best or worst times to experience either? There seems to be something very accessible within the "just 10 more minutes" snooze where the mind is still sleepy, yet also awake, if that makes sense...

Your thoughts about processing are "waking" issues is interesting. Do you think this happens in a linear fashion? As in, first the mind takes care of the daily stuff, then moves on to other extracurricular matters? I know... time is a very fluid notion on this board, but I'm asking nonetheless. : )

Thank you for being so generous with information!
Giulia wrote:
That night I spent the first three hours turning round in my bed, desperately trying to relax and achieve a long enough hypnagogic state that may allow me to consciously leave my body, but to no avail. I was not sufficiently experienced in this field, and neither was I aware of how the urgency dictated by grief or sorrow could actually hinder this kind of experiences. I was extremely frustrated.


I also have a question too Giulia, what attitude or state of mind towards what you are doing has a positive effect? e.g makes the OBE state more or less achievable? What has worked for you?

I have never tried any technique myself. I have only had SOBEs. With dreaming though I have very vivid and lucid dreams in the early hours of the morning maybe from 4am onwards and what I have been taught to do and what works for me, is to ask with a true heart, what it is I am searching for in that moment just before sleep to receive guidance in the dreaming state once the other dream stuff has cleared. Often I have visitors/spirits who take me “out of my regular dream” into a totally different landscape to show me things I have asked to be guided in. Often these are with visitors I do not personally know (maybe from this life?) The most recent, around the time I came across this website was with a french man in his thirties with curly brown hair and small round glasses (like spectacles) he was answering one of my questions about how we here on earth are impacting the wider cosmos. When working in Chile in a Mapuche community I had visitations from Mapuche elders who showed me facts about their culture I had to acknowledge in relation to my work then (I was filming a community affected by a proposed hydroelectric dam project from Norway). I could share these dreams with key members from that community without being judged (as a white woman etc) These were truthful hard facts I felt I needed to share. I use dreams to communicate with all my children before they are born too, and they would with me. Currently I wish to communicate with the baby I have now.. I wonder if one can have an OBE whilst pregnant?!
 
mbee wrote: what I have been taught to do and what works for me, is to ask with a true heart, what it is I am searching for in that moment just before sleep to receive guidance in the dreaming state once the other dream stuff has cleared. Often I have visitors/spirits who take me “out of my regular dream” into a totally different landscape to show me things I have asked to be guided in. Often these are with visitors I do not personally know (maybe from this life?) The most recent, around the time I came across this website was with a french man in his thirties with curly brown hair and small round glasses (like spectacles) he was answering one of my questions about how we here on earth are impacting the wider cosmos.


Hello mbee. : )
Would you mind sharing what this french man told you about the Earth/cosmos? I am very interested in knowing the answer. ;)

And that would be amazing to have guides in your dream showing you these insights and knowledge. : ) I will add that ("ask with a true heart") to my list of things to do for lucid dreaming/obe's. In fact, I became lucid in a dream not too long ago, and stood there thinking, "What was it I wanted to do again?" And it finally occured to me that I wanted to speak with my spirit guide. So I made that known, but no one showed up. XP Perhaps because I did not make my intention strong enough. :P
I don’t know if we are going off topic here, but since you ask, yes prismreverie I can share it :)
My question was how we are affecting the wider cosmos energetically, since I have come to learn that everything vibrates and has a frequency and our thoughts and spoken word hold a lot of power over the manifest world (the work of Masaru Emoto to give an example). At the time I watched a talk Eben Alexander gave about his NDE and it made a lot of sense listening to his insights into acoustics.
These encounters are always outside and on bright green grass.
So a friendly, smiley french man stepped into my dream and took me out to the edge of a wooded area. He has brown curly hair, spectacle glasses which make his eyes small, a light blue t shirt and regular trousers (not jeans, not sure). Telepathically he communicates to me and stands to my left. In front of me and to his left are 12 bright orbs which float knee hight in a circle. He tells me they are all playing like children but this one is not playing and he points to the one closes to my right knee. All the orbs are vibrating differently and in unison but the one he shows me is not and is outside the ring and not synchronised like the rest. He explains that they are all of the same composition(?)that they are all children of the same creator/higher consciousness/god.
What these 12 orbs represent I do not know - it may be entirely personal perhaps but it compelled me to read into certain aspects of NDEs :)
When you lucid dream Prismreverie or anyone else, does your landscape/scenery change in any way or is it definable or district (like colour or light) to regular dream? Are we off topic here? mx
 In front of me and to his left are 12 bright orbs which float knee hight in a circle. He tells me they are all playing like children but this one is not playing and he points to the one closes to my right knee. All the orbs are vibrating differently and in unison but the one he shows me is not and is outside the ring and not synchronised like the rest. He explains that they are all of the same composition(?)that they are all children of the same creator/higher consciousness/god. 
What these 12 orbs represent I do not know - it may be entirely personal perhaps but it compelled me to read into certain aspects of NDEs

When you lucid dream Prismreverie or anyone else, does your landscape/scenery change in any way or is it definable or district (like colour or light) to regular dream?


Hm... I remember reading an nde about an experiencer who said that we each have 12 (or are a part of 12) guides who are around us at any given time to help with our spiritual development. I wish I could remember the exact nde so I can link to it, but if I find it I will make sure to do that. And being a part of this soul group, we have all been a guide to their spiritual development as well. As if taking turns to make sure we all get our experience and missions on Earth completed to reach our higher vibration.

And about lucid dreaming, sometimes the landscape remains the same, and depending on my level of coherency (is that a word? :P) may either become extremely clear and vivid, or foggy/hazy/hard to maintain. And when it is clear, it is very clear. I could feel, hear, see, smell with such enhancement, that it even makes real life pale in comparison. Then other times I will leave my dream up to the "fates" to take me wherever "they" see fit. As if leaving it up to them (or my higher self?) to decide what they would like to show me. And then of course there are other times that I change it for my own entertainment to practice being in the lucid environment, or I use lucid dreams as a gateway to pursue obe's (with minimal results so far :P).

Thank you for sharing your encounter and the insight it provided you. : ) I do agree with that aspect of vibrational frequencies, due to personal experiences and reading about other's.

(And I do believe we are trailing off topic... so many different avenues with these kinds of subjects. Maybe it's part of the grand plan to get us all connected? ;P )
mbee wrote: Are we off topic here? mx


Not if you are confortable not sharing your experience as a separate topic, mbee.

The one thing I was considering was copying part of the thread containing your general contributions on dreaming and lucid dreaming under a dedicated topic. Sorry I am taking some time to reply, by the way.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Thank you Prismreverie. You have given me something to think about! But I fear sharing more would divert the thought flow ;) Thank you also for your other suggestions on the other thread, I appreciate it!

prismreverie wrote:
(And I do believe we are trailing off topic... so many different avenues with these kinds of subjects. Maybe it's part of the grand plan to get us all connected? ;P )


... yes. We can learn so much through this form of communication and exchange its very interesting to me (its new for me)

Giulia wrote:
mbee wrote: Are we off topic here? mx


Not if you are confortable not sharing your experience as a separate topic, mbee.

The one thing I was considering was copying part of the thread containing your general contributions on dreaming and lucid dreaming under a dedicated topic. Sorry I am taking some time to reply, by the way.


As you see fit Giulia. I have no objections. If there are others who wish to share from this side of things and you feel its worth your time and effort, then please do. mx
lkb130 wrote: one question I had was regarding sleep cycles. I've always heard that it takes 90 minutes to go through an entire cycle (forgive me if that's not exactly correct), so I've often wondered how I could dream when I've gone back to sleep for 10 minutes or so - when "they" say that dreams only occur after a longer period of sleep. My question is - do you think there a sweet spot for lucid dreaming or OBE's within this cycle? You know, best or worst times to experience either? There seems to be something very accessible within the "just 10 more minutes" snooze where the mind is still sleepy, yet also awake, if that makes sense...


Thanks for your kind words, lkb130.

Based on my understanding, in an ordinary night (or day, depending on when one is obliged to be awake), “most” people indeed have about four or five 90-minute sleep cycles per night, and Rapid-Eye-Movement (REM) dreaming is said to happen in all of these cycles, which usually start with a twilight stage called hypnagogic and end with a twilight stage called hypnopompic (in my case the latter has always proved to be an excellent windows for unusual experiences). However the length of the dreaming periods is said to gradually increase from say 10 minutes, when one is very tired and has just gone to bed (first cycle) to much longer by the time we wake up in the morning (or whenever). Some maintain that, provided we have had a nice restful sleep, the last two hours could indeed be spent mostly dreaming. These last few hours of our sleep cycle are also said to be the ones when we get the greatest opportunity to enter REM sleep straight from waking, as we are refreshed and our mind is not feeling groggy.

Hypnopompic sleep (the twilight stage that comes upon waking up) is the one in which I have had amazing experiences, such as feeling out of time and in time at the same time, or turning round in the bed and instantly finding myself in what I call the “astral version” of my bedroom, fully lucid and ready to have an OBE.

But there are exceptions, as in the case when I was very sleep depleted, because I had to work at night and be awake throughout the day. Just taking a short nap, when I was in the middle of my work at night could involve a full-blown OBE, which in my opinion is just one step beyond lucid dreaming and can be entered into from within a lucid dream. The reason I ascribe this to is the fact that my mind was very awake and alert at a time when my body was very tired.

lkb130 wrote: Your thoughts about processing are "waking" issues is interesting. Do you think this happens in a linear fashion? As in, first the mind takes care of the daily stuff, then moves on to other extracurricular matters? I know... time is a very fluid notion on this board, but I'm asking nonetheless. : )for


What an interesting question for whoever is curious about these things. As I was walking my dog, the other morning, it suddenly hit me that we might be processing our life at all times, with sleep being a privileged time. The linear sequence, in my opinion, would apply to resting the body, which is why dreaming cycles have been observed as having and increasing length as the body becomes more rested and refreshed. So it might well be that, since our body and brain need time to rest and feel refreshed, that our ability to deeply process our everyday experiences increases in a linear sequence. But this is just an idea.

When I suddenly met Sabrina at 3.00 a.m., I certainly had not reached the early morning refreshed state, and I cannot remember being in a dream just before that. However, I had had two weeks to process my urgent need to meet her and I had an impending deadline, and deadlines have always proved marvellous opportunities for me, somehow.

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, lkb130. I look forward to yours and anyone else’s thoughts about this intriguing topic.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
mbee wrote: I also have a question too Giulia, what attitude or state of mind towards what you are doing has a positive effect? e.g makes the OBE state more or less achievable? What has worked for you?


Now that we have talked about it, I guess that, in that specific case, it was the impeding deadline that worked best for me. I was much younger and I had been brought up in a community that wanted me to rely on faith alone about survival after death and in fact discouraged doing what I was planning to do. I had no idea that the excitement about what I planned to do and the fact that confidence and asking for something with a true heart could unlock a potential that I have now come to believe all human beings have, irrespective of any taboos, fears and the like. The only thing I realised, in those days, was a sense of urgency could be unproductive. Ultimately, this thought-provoking exchange has led me to realise that a sense of urgency can eventually be helpful. Also, I needed personal evidence about everything, in those days, so I was very motivated!

mbee wrote: I have never tried any technique myself. I have only had SOBEs. With dreaming though I have very vivid and lucid dreams in the early hours of the morning maybe from 4am onwards and what I have been taught to do and what works for me, is to ask with a true heart, what it is I am searching for in that moment just before sleep to receive guidance in the dreaming state once the other dream stuff has cleared. Often I have visitors/spirits who take me “out of my regular dream” into a totally different landscape to show me things I have asked to be guided in. Often these are with visitors I do not personally know (maybe from this life?) The most recent, around the time I came across this website was with a french man in his thirties with curly brown hair and small round glasses (like spectacles) he was answering one of my questions about how we here on earth are impacting the wider cosmos. When working in Chile in a Mapuche community I had visitations from Mapuche elders who showed me facts about their culture I had to acknowledge in relation to my work then (I was filming a community affected by a proposed hydroelectric dam project from Norway). I could share these dreams with key members from that community without being judged (as a white woman etc) These were truthful hard facts I felt I needed to share. I use dreams to communicate with all my children before they are born too, and they would with me. Currently I wish to communicate with the baby I have now. I wonder if one can have an OBE whilst pregnant?!


This is very intriguing, mbee, and, as I mentioned, up to you to decide whether to post as a separate topic. This thread was born as a means to share a story about after death communication with the daughter of a friend, which involved different types of experiences, and I feel very grateful for you sharing yours.

Dream visitations from elders from a different culture and using dreaming to communicate with your children before they were are born are absolutely fascinating to read about and, of course, if you choose to start a separate topic for each one of these, then we could ask all sorts of questions and exchange ideas about these exciting experiences without getting distracted.

To answer your question, I have only had one OBE while I was pregnant because I instinctively resisted these experiences. In those days, I was still convinced that I was travelling “out” of my physical body and irrationally feared I could remain locked out. Now, 20 years later, I am more comfortable with the idea that an OBE is a journey “within”, if we need to see it in terms of IN and OUT, and it was only a few months ago that I was actually woken up by the alarm “during” an OBE and all that happened whas that I gently regained waking consciousness.

Anyway, in the OBE I had while I was pregnant I wasn’t at all keen on having one. Like a balloon, I bounced against the ceiling of the astral version of my living room (I had fallen asleep while watching TV) and immediately returned to my waking state with a pounding heart. I have never considered having one on purpose or suggesting others do, simply because when I was pregnant I felt doubly responsible about anything I did, and I still feel that way, especially about phenomena I know so little about and which could have emotional/stress-related repercussions.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia wrote: To answer your question, I have only had one OBE while I was pregnant because I instinctively resisted these experiences. In those days, I was still convinced that I was travelling “out” of my physical body and irrationally feared I could remain locked out. Now, 20 years later, I am more comfortable with the idea that an OBE is a journey “within”, if we need to see it in terms of IN and OUT, and it was only a few months ago that I was actually woken up by the alarm “during” an OBE and all that happened whas that I gently regained waking consciousness.


Hi Giulia, and to anyone else with these experiences, with all this practice and information on this subject, what do you feel about sleep paralysis, if that is something you encountered during your journeys?

Also, I am not exactly sure what this was, and I certainly don't want to raise any unnecessary fears or apprehension, but I remember quite clearly a couple of times while not even attempting obe, that I felt my astral body literally being dragged out of my physical. I do not know what this was, but it was quite a scary experience, and did give me some reserves about what might be "on the other side". Any insight/opinion on this would would be greatly appreciated. : )
prismreverie wrote: Hi Giulia, and to anyone else with these experiences, with all this practice and information on this subject, what do you feel about sleep paralysis, if that is something you encountered during your journeys?

Also, I am not exactly sure what this was, and I certainly don't want to raise any unnecessary fears or apprehension, but I remember quite clearly a couple of times while not even attempting obe, that I felt my astral body literally being dragged out of my physical. I do not know what this was, but it was quite a scary experience, and did give me some reserves about what might be "on the other side". Any insight/opinion on this would would be greatly appreciated. : )


Hi! If you type "sleep paralysis" in the search box you have available, you will find various posts that deal with the topic. I recently commented about this in this topic and you will also find references to my own experience in my signature links.

About being dragged into the experience, I find it a suitable way of putting it, as you appear to have no control over it when it suddenly happens to you. But about being dragged into experiencing whatever you deem "the other side" to be, I still feel we have control over it, if it only happens a couple of times and not on a regular basis.

I personally found Bob Monroe's book Journeys Out of the Body (now also available as an e-book) a very interesting read, along with a the notion of "filters" as discussed in this topic: Questions about the Mind and Consciousness.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Hi Giulia,
thank you for your response. You are a very interesting and inspiring being to me! x
It can be a challenge, at least I speak for myself, in communicating one’s “experiences” in these snippets of conversation. Often in these topics, I see one’s experience being not fully understood and by reading “through the lines” our phycological mind is filling many of the gaps inaccurately. Its fair enough I guess and hard not to. It is also great opportunity to look at one’s own ego. For me, I have learnt to treat “events" which take place in both day and night in the life of a person, with utmost respect, whoever that person may be. They are moments of profound transformation and realisation and are within a webbed context of interrelating situations and ideas that culminate in an “event” which may or may not change the way a person lives their life. Sometimes a realisation takes place many years later, perhaps after sharing and discussing it on a forum like this one. Becoming a mother, as you must know yourself, is life transforming. Its a big wake up for many and also an opportunity to look deep within at who we take ourselves to be and how we choose to guide a fresh new being in this utterly topsy turvy “reality” humankind finds itself in. Its also a moment when one asks was my conditioning correct? are my values true? is this what I wish to share with the next generation? In indigenous communities, decisions about one’s conduct are made in light of how they might impact the next 7 generations!!!! So, I do feel very much like sharing my own experiences with people who have an open mind and heart, though I hesitate sometimes. Communicating with my children was at a great moment of change in my life. It was also a moment where I stood at a cross roads and where death and birth became one.

Hi Prismreverie,
my experience posted in the OBERF under "maya" was about sleep paralysis mx
Thank you Giulia and mbee. : )
It is nice that people are willing to share their accounts to give others a better understanding and ways of communicating about these subjects that are usually shied away from what many consider to be "normal" conversations. I will make sure to read up on your accounts.
Thank you so much. : )
Hi, mbee.

I find all these reflections very insightful and understand the filling-the-gap process you mention. I have found that I can only relate to another person’s experience to the extent that I have been through something similar, though I realise we are all unique individuals, experiencing life in our own individual way. "Standing at a crossroads at a time when death and birth became one" sounds ever so evocative...

Meeting so many bereaved parents, such as Sabrina’s, had me thinking a lot about having children. I would never have thought about the next seven generations though... I do agree that it is a big wakeup for many, whether it happens in or out of our linear time. Over the years, and especially after stumbling into pre-birth memories, I have come to the conclusion that children are by no means our property, in that they make their own unique decisions, and this has somewhat relieved me from this burden.

Sabrina’s last message to me was she was sorry for all the Christmases her parents had had to spend without her. I guess this is an open topic for me, at least for the time being. Based on these pre-birth memories, I had no idea I would come to this world to experience separation and felt I had been tricked into it. That’s when it hit me that, unless I was non-judgemental about myself, I could not be so about those who had become “other” than me.

So I am even more in awe about you communicating with your children before their birth. How thoughtful and loving of you!

Hi, prismreverie!

You are very welcome and I agree!
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia wrote: Based on these pre-birth memories, I had no idea I would come to this world to experience separation and felt I had been tricked into it.



I can understand why someone would have those feelings, especially once KNOWING that we came from a place filled with such amazing unconditional love, only to be put here where there's so much pain and misery, and so much lack of love that it's heart-breaking being here sometimes.

What sort of helps me, is the testimony from some nders, that say that we did indeed WANT to come here, for the sole purpose of bringing love to this planet. It is so empty and void of it in a lot of places, and I think that's our ultimate meaning to life. I don't quite understand why we need to forget about our mission, but maybe that's part of the master test. It's so easy to love when we're surrounded and enveloped by it, when we ARE love - but how easy is it when we're stripped of that knowledge and are instead surrounded by hurt/anger/hatred? Can we still love amidst all this? Are we strong enough to bring the love here?

I believe we are. : ) Once people start waking up and realizing our purpose, I think a universal shift in consciousness will happen and help bring this notion of "Heaven on Earth".
mbee wrote: i have lucid dreams where I walk in and out of dream states, often with a guide showing me something after I go to sleep with a question, or myself guiding someone.


Hi mbee,
I am fascinated with these events, and almost feel... regretful that I may have used a few lucid dreams as a means of exploring what I wanted - such as flying (I usually only want to fly in my lucid dreams. :P The freedom is so exhilarating and incredible) or using special powers (a lot of fun ;P) and things like that instead of pursuing a deeper meaning behind it.

But then I realize, a part of life IS to have fun, as long as it's not hurting others ;), so I don't give myself a too hard time about it. And I have been using lucid dreams lately to try and communicate with my spirit guide, but no one really shows up. XP And I would love to be able to have consistent obe's, ever since I read about angels or spirit guides helping people achieve these states in order to help other people heal (emotionally? physically? spiritually? all of the above?). I think it may be one avenue that can help humanity overcome some of our struggles.

And I have only had a couple of truly terrifying sleep paralysis experiences, but they were definitely of a nature that I will never forget. (These were separate from the feeling that I was being dragged from my bed.) The mind is fascinating, and I can only hope that's what sleep paralysis is.. just the mind's creative way of trying to explain our physical helplessness during these sleep/waking states. ;P
prismreverie wrote: It is nice that people are willing to share their accounts to give others a better understanding and ways of communicating about these subjects that are usually shied away from what many consider to be "normal" conversations. I will make sure to read up on your accounts.
Thank you so much. : )


Prismreverie! thank you! I agree whole heartedly!x

Giulia wrote: Meeting so many bereaved parents, such as Sabrina’s, had me thinking a lot about having children. I would never have thought about the next seven generations though... I do agree that it is a big wakeup for many, whether it happens in or out of our linear time. Over the years, and especially after stumbling into pre-birth memories, I have come to the conclusion that children are by no means our property, in that they make their own unique decisions, and this has somewhat relieved me from this burden.


This is very true statement and for me it is often a very fine balance between guidance and acceptance/forgiveness. I'm sure in your work with mediums, closure is what both sides often seek when dealing with a sudden death.

The loss of a child is something there are very few words for. It is extremely hard to understand. Before having a child myself, in my work I edited footage of roll upon roll of palastinean warfare, parents sending their children out to die for justice, mother’s whose entire beings you felt vibrating through the screen with pain, anger, pride, sorrow. In Poland (where I partly grew up) there are literally km of crosses in the cemeteries where boys’ bodies are buried, 17, 18, 21 years old, an entire army of a generation wiped out of memory leaving a very grey scene punctuated by a red rose here and there. But somehow this is different to cases like Sabrina’s because its almost as though her longing, being “sorry for all those christmases spent apart” points to the fact that she and her family, as a group perhaps never came to an united understanding of some kind in this realm. Some say this is love, forgiveness, faith in being always together, trust in life and having no more fear. The other day my children were making birthday cards for a little girl they have never met ( a friend of the family) who turns 7 next week and is on her last chemo treatment. On one level I cannot begin to imagine what the family in a moment like this is going through. On another level its the moment of connection with life as it TRUELY is. Very quickly we see clearly what is important. It reminds us very powerfully we are not in control of the river of life. It takes us on a journey. But just as with rising children we have a choice, or free will.

When my Polish granny past away I was on the other side of the world in Chile. All my family were with her in hospital where she lay in a coma. I remember reading a text message I received whilst high in the mountains, where there is no form of communication other that txt sms or radio. I took a lift down to the nearest town the next day and spoke to my family over the phone. My granny pretty much raised me from the age of 3 months so I was very close with her. My family were very upset. I took the news in and that night lay on my bed in a mediative state. I imagined my granny with her eyes closed lying on a bed and me hovering over her. I combed her hair like she always liked it. I painted her lips with her favourite red lipstick and then I began to sooth her by gently scrubbing her body as I always did for her in the bath with a very rough brush she liked. But I did this all over her body without touching her using the palms of my hands. I don’t know where the idea to do this came from. I was TOTALLY 100% with her. I hummed a song we used to sing together whist I did this and I cried. When I was a small girl I was obsessed with ghost stories and anything to do with angels, gnomes, fairies you name it. I made my granny promise me that when she died she would visit me. I would often remind her about this promise as a child and she would smile and agree. And I know she was true in her words. And this is exactly what she did. She died that night in the hospital and I was with her as she entered the light. However in this dream/vision I knew I could not look at the light. It was as though I stood to one side and she turned to me on the side. She was amazed that what I predicted was true! she was excited that she kept her promise. I, on the other hand, or my higher self, confused me because I was not at all excited in fact I was very anxious that she should hurry up, I was almost angry at her for playing around and taking her time or something. The next time I spoke to my mum she could hardly speak she was so upset that my granny had "left us”. My whole family were very confused as to my contentment that she was quick about her death. I remember how she always told me she never wanted to be in a "vegetable state” at death. I have complete experience with her “leaving” this existence which some of my family never had even whilst holding her hand!

Giulia wrote: Sabrina’s last message to me was she was sorry for all the Christmases her parents had had to spend without her. I guess this is an open topic for me, at least for the time being. Based on these pre-birth memories, I had no idea I would come to this world to experience separation and felt I had been tricked into it. That’s when it hit me that, unless I was non-judgemental about myself, I could not be so about those who had become “other” than me.


Yes, and I feel that through this experience of separation, through which we taste pain, confusion, suffering often too much for many, one is compelled to seek a truth (whatever that road may be for that person) - to look deeper into life in search of its core or essence, to find our north star or guru/god within and with this coordinate, navigate the ocean of this life. I think that maybe in heaven we still are processing these understandings in our being and through our reincarnations we come closer as one. This is my belief not everybody’s.
I agree with what you wrote, Prismreverie, that part of our mission (perhaps only this) is to bring that magical loving light into this world by remembering we ARE IT. This reminds me of the NDE of Anne Horn.
There are a few pre-birth stories I have read on this site where the beings have chosen to repeatedly remind themselves at the moment of birth “this time I will not forget, this time I will remember..” and have been gifted this memory. There was one lady who remembered her previous existence on earth entailing so much suffering and pain; she had been totally deserted by her family as she lay alone in a hospital for months on end, paralysed because of a fall. She was a little girl of around 12 and suffocated herself. What strength she needed to come back to earth!!!!

prismreverie wrote:
Hi mbee,
I am fascinated with these events, and almost feel... regretful that I may have used a few lucid dreams as a means of exploring what I wanted - such as flying (I usually only want to fly in my lucid dreams. :P The freedom is so exhilarating and incredible) or using special powers (a lot of fun ;P) and things like that instead of pursuing a deeper meaning behind it.

But then I realize, a part of life IS to have fun, as long as it's not hurting others ;), so I don't give myself a too hard time about it. And I have been using lucid dreams lately to try and communicate with my spirit guide, but no one really shows up. XP And I would love to be able to have consistent obe's, ever since I read about angels or spirit guides helping people achieve these states in order to help other people heal (emotionally? physically? spiritually? all of the above?). I think it may be one avenue that can help humanity overcome some of our struggles.


You make me smile a huge smile! I love it! and I love your positive fresh energy! Thank you! thank you!

prismreverie wrote: And I have only had a couple of truly terrifying sleep paralysis experiences, but they were definitely of a nature that I will never forget. (These were separate from the feeling that I was being dragged from my bed.) The mind is fascinating, and I can only hope that's what sleep paralysis is.. just the mind's creative way of trying to explain our physical helplessness during these sleep/waking states. ;P


What happened with these? I know the feeling these things can bring. I often wonder if they happened to me now as an adult how would I deal with it. One lady I met who had these sort of things, demons and such, appear to her whilst in meditation, told them to just *$%^ off, that they didn't intimidate her one bit and they slunk away with tails between their legs.:)

thank you both!
mbee wrote: The loss of a child is something there are very few words for. It is extremely hard to understand. Before having a child myself, in my work I edited footage of roll upon roll of palastinean warfare, parents sending their children out to die for justice, mother’s whose entire beings you felt vibrating through the screen with pain, anger, pride, sorrow. In Poland (where I partly grew up) there are literally km of crosses in the cemeteries where boys’ bodies are buried, 17, 18, 21 years old, an entire army of a generation wiped out of memory leaving a very grey scene punctuated by a red rose here and there. But somehow this is different to cases like Sabrina’s because its almost as though her longing, being “sorry for all those christmases spent apart” points to the fact that she and her family, as a group perhaps never came to an united understanding of some kind in this realm. Some say this is love, forgiveness, faith in being always together, trust in life and having no more fear. The other day my children were making birthday cards for a little girl they have never met ( a friend of the family) who turns 7 next week and is on her last chemo treatment. On one level I cannot begin to imagine what the family in a moment like this is going through. On another level its the moment of connection with life as it TRUELY is. Very quickly we see clearly what is important. It reminds us very powerfully we are not in control of the river of life. It takes us on a journey. But just as with rising children we have a choice, or free will.


I cry easily, at the drop of a hat it seems, so this post really tugged at my heartstrings. :'( My heart breaks for anyone who's lost a young one, or to see their little one going through such trauma. And war is another unfortunate event..



mbee wrote: I agree with what you wrote, Prismreverie, that part of our mission (perhaps only this) is to bring that magical loving light into this world by remembering we ARE IT. This reminds me of the NDE of Anne Horn.
There are a few pre-birth stories I have read on this site where the beings have chosen to repeatedly remind themselves at the moment of birth “this time I will not forget, this time I will remember..” and have been gifted this memory. There was one lady who remembered her previous existence on earth entailing so much suffering and pain; she had been totally deserted by her family as she lay alone in a hospital for months on end, paralysed because of a fall. She was a little girl of around 12 and suffocated herself. What strength she needed to come back to earth!!!!


How devastating for that child being in that predicament. : (
And even with the "love" knowledge, if they retained that memory, I would imagine it would still be difficult to let something like that go. It definitely would take someone with a lot of courage and selflessness to let go of that individual ego.


mbee wrote: You make me smile a huge smile! I love it! and I love your positive fresh energy! Thank you! thank you!

----------------

What happened with these? I know the feeling these things can bring. I often wonder if they happened to me now as an adult how would I deal with it. One lady I met who had these sort of things, demons and such, appear to her whilst in meditation, told them to just *$%^ off, that they didn't intimidate her one bit and they slunk away with tails between their legs.

thank you both!


Thank you mbee! I try to be positive when I can, and I try to be loving and kind also. It is a work in progress! ;)
I appreciate your kind words. : )

----------------

Lol
That is cool. :P I admit, I never tried to do that before. ;P
I always pray to Jesus, and sure enough, away they go and no more terrifying visions.

The most terrifying one I had, I could hear this very distinct evil male whispering.. like chanting, almost ritualistic, and in the background of this chanting I could hear what sounded like these sinister children laughing/giggling. :| I could feel their presence in the room. Believe me when I say, if our mind is capable of something that feels that real, then our minds are very powerful indeed. So I prayed to Jesus, the first time I ever had to under that circumstance, because I never had that experience before, and sure enough their presence left. Now, whether that was a placebo effect - due to my belief or need to believe, that made this feeling go away, or whether it was real... I can't honestly say for sure. I just have my beliefs and they work. :P
mbee wrote: When my Polish granny past away I was on the other side of the world in Chile. All my family were with her in hospital where she lay in a coma. I remember reading a text message I received whilst high in the mountains, where there is no form of communication other that txt sms or radio. I took a lift down to the nearest town the next day and spoke to my family over the phone. My granny pretty much raised me from the age of 3 months so I was very close with her. My family were very upset. I took the news in and that night lay on my bed in a mediative state. I imagined my granny with her eyes closed lying on a bed and me hovering over her. I combed her hair like she always liked it. I painted her lips with her favourite red lipstick and then I began to sooth her by gently scrubbing her body as I always did for her in the bath with a very rough brush she liked. But I did this all over her body without touching her using the palms of my hands. I don’t know where the idea to do this came from. I was TOTALLY 100% with her. I hummed a song we used to sing together whist I did this and I cried. When I was a small girl I was obsessed with ghost stories and anything to do with angels, gnomes, fairies you name it. I made my granny promise me that when she died she would visit me. I would often remind her about this promise as a child and she would smile and agree. And I know she was true in her words. And this is exactly what she did. She died that night in the hospital and I was with her as she entered the light. However in this dream/vision I knew I could not look at the light. It was as though I stood to one side and she turned to me on the side. She was amazed that what I predicted was true! she was excited that she kept her promise. I, on the other hand, or my higher self, confused me because I was not at all excited in fact I was very anxious that she should hurry up, I was almost angry at her for playing around and taking her time or something. The next time I spoke to my mum she could hardly speak she was so upset that my granny had "left us”. My whole family were very confused as to my contentment that she was quick about her death. I remember how she always told me she never wanted to be in a "vegetable state” at death. I have complete experience with her “leaving” this existence which some of my family never had even whilst holding her hand!


What an amazing experience, mbee!!! I was especially touched by you being "TOTALLY 100% with her" and by the intensity of the experience you shared. Dr Moody has coined the expression Shared Death Experiences but I must admit this is the first time I come across a first-hand report. I also find it very helpful to have a pre-death arrangement, as you had with your granny.

With Sabrina, as with a few other people, I was blessed with somehow sharing at least part of their transition at a later stage. Whow knows? Maybe your granny will share that epxerience with those who were holding her hand some time? What a blessing this must have been for you both!
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
prismreverie wrote: ...Now, whether that was a placebo effect - due to my belief or need to believe, that made this feeling go away, or whether it was real... I can't honestly say for sure. I just have my beliefs and they work. :P


I think beliefs are much more powerful than we take them to be and also the way in which we use words - there is a lot of power in prayer and magic than often is spoken about. There are some topics on this site talking about this theme.:)

Giulia wrote: ...I also find it very helpful to have a pre-death arrangement, as you had with your granny.

With Sabrina, as with a few other people, I was blessed with somehow sharing at least part of their transition at a later stage. Whow knows? Maybe your granny will share that epxerience with those who were holding her hand some time? What a blessing this must have been for you both!


Thank you Giulia, I didn't know there was a specific term for this type of experience! When I think back all those years to the time we made this promise of meeting after her death I can remember how powerful it felt to say this to her. It would sting my eyes and I would have a lump in my throat but also it made me trust very profoundly in what I believed at that time was true out of instinct. We were very close and I felt that towards the end of her life, when she would confide in me on a very deep level when she would say she was ready to go, enough of "experiencing", this promise helped both myself and her and close family. We discussed things like closure with other family members she spent her life quarrelling with, namely her daughter, my aunt. Her last year was spent making peace (I think only from her side) with her daughter which had a very positive repercussion on the way my aunt remembered her mother and felt healed by her love and forgiveness in that final year.
I enjoyed reading your detailed experience with Sabrina, in your initial post. :) Many interesting points were made in your initial post and the subsequent posts, of which I could only read a few. Fascinating subjects. :)
37 posts Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron