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Dear Community,

when I first heard about NDEs fom Mr. Moody it was a blast. As an agnostic I thought maybe god exists / maybe not. As a human beeing I have no tools to be CERTAIN 100%. There were many super smart people on the planet (philosophers) and some super religious / spiritual beeings on this planet. But they all say something different and they say the opposite of the other. Either we are reborn or we go to heaven for eternity. Eiter Jesus was right or buddha.
I was very very frightened of death. I was terrified. Maybe I have to suffer. Just the imagination of losing my entity, myself, the feeling of my existence really filled my heart with pain and sheer horror. Then I read the book of Raymond Moody and some kind of hope began to come into my soul.

After reading several NDEs some questions came to my mind. Can the ones who had an NDE or someone who maybe read answers to my questions in some NDE descriptions please give me an answer? Thank you very much! I listed a lot of questions. So I am also very happy about postings from you that only touch one question.

1. Some people say that they saw their future in an NDE. Does this mean that our lives are already predetermined, that everything is already writen like in a book, and we just live like robots toward the announced future? How can we change our lives by decisions, and free will when on the other side the future can be seen in an NDE?

2. "Who / What" is the white light. Is it already God, or is it like a gatekeeper? Maybe the holy ghost? I mean is this white light the creator of the univers or "just" an super power "employee" that is responsible for the welcome + life review part? The people who are dying say that felt love like never before in their lives and that they want to stay near the light. Maybe the light has „the job“ to welcome new dead peple and they cannot be near the light for eternity?

3. Many people speak about their NDEs that they felt a lot of love and everything was alright. They "just" experienced the beginning of death. Could it be, that they come to the light, feel loved and after this positive experience the are send to a unhappy place because of their sins? Or just because the first part of dying is fun and the second part is no fun? I mean is an NDE a glimpse of the whole death expirience or can it change an be totally different from what we now know? When they can not stay in the love light for eternety they maybe are no longer happy as a dead soul?

4. People see their loved onces who are already dead. On the other side many say, that we are reborn. How can that be? I mean, when I die, I am a soul and can "talk" to loved ones once they are dead. But I have to be reincarnated into a „new“ person on earth. Does "God" or who ever is master of carma etc, wait until my loved ones can see me? What I mean: Some people see their grand mother that says „welcome to the other side“. That means that the grand mother soul must be „herself“ and can not be born into another new identity on earth in the meantime, you know what i mean?

5. What is the purpose of life? Ok, love and knowledge ok. But what is this whole construction good for? Why are we part of god, and on the other hand we have to suffer for our deeds e.g. for suicide? We have to learn from our life on earth. Why? What does god need us for? Does he look at his / her own creation by creating us and giving us concousness and eyes to see the creation which means herself? Ok, fine with that. But why this good deeds / sin stuff and this massive amount of suffering in the world. What function do we have for god? I mean, some people say, god is super wise and super powerful. Why does she / he use this awful construction of us people live and suffer for creating a higher soul? This does not seem very kind to me as a suffering human being.

6. Does the devil and hell exists? Are people send to hell for eternity or after suffering long enough, they can go to heaven?

7. When people say, when they are dead they just ask a question and get an answer imediately. So when the soul life works so well with gaining knowledge, why do we forget everything when we come to earth and have so weak tools, like getting knowledge, remember things, etc. when we come from a higher more sophisticated place?

8. Are their other creatures in space? I mean if this reincarnation thing is whats happening, can I be reborn as an „alien“ and have to live a completely different life? Are animals also reborn?

9. Are new souls created? I mean, when a person is born the person needs a soul. Is it a recycled soul that already lived? I mean the population is exploding. Can we cope with already exisiting souls or are new souls created?

I could imagine that some questions seem stupid or strange or whatever to you. But whole life is strange, isnt it? So many reborn / samsara questions…but having to live and suffer once more or maybe a thousand times seems so hard for me and my soul. Maybe you can understand me a bit. I am not christian and have a nice worldview. God cares for me and I will live in heaven for ever. That's nice and consoling to a soul. But I do not have this advantage due to my own worldview.

That are very important topics for me and certainly not easy to answer. But if you can, you would do me super big favour and give my searching soul some new insights. Thank you all! Looking forward to your postings!

Best regards,
Daniel
DaniWhite wrote: I could imagine that some questions seem stupid or strange or whatever to you. But whole life is strange, isnt it? So many reborn / samsara questions…but having to live and suffer once more or maybe a thousand times seems so hard for me and my soul. Maybe you can understand me a bit. I am not christian and have a nice worldview. God cares for me and I will live in heaven for ever. That's nice and consoling to a soul. But I do not have this advantage due to my own worldview.


Welcome, Daniel! I look forward to hearing the answers to your many questions, which I am sure so many people share. :)

May I ask what you mean when you say that your worldview does not allow you to have a nice and consoling perspective?
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Dear Daniel,

As I never had an NDE myself, I cannot claim that my answers to your questions will be correct. But having translated around 1200 NDEs in the last four years and having read many thousands of them, I came upon a lot of strange accounts. I have been doing quite some thinking about what I read and had about similar questions as you have asked here. A great many NDEs provided me with partial 'answers' to my questions. So as a first tip I would say, read as many NDE accounts as you can and reflect about them to come to your own conclusions.

1.Some people say that they saw their future in an NDE. Does this mean that our lives are already predetermined, that everything is already written like in a book, and we just live like robots toward the announced future? How can we change our lives by decisions, and free will when on the other side the future can be seen in an NDE?

This is a question that is very difficult to have an answer for, except that, lets say even if the future issues of a person would be determined in the way what will happen to them, so their reactions to those happenings will never be determined, and so they will not live like robots. I know from my own life experience that we can change our life by decisions.
The best way I would describe this, is like a person wanting to climb the mount Everest. Before going there he will have to prepare his way, his route, looking for the coming difficulties, has to get the appropriate equipment, he has to train his body and he has to adapt to the high altitude etc.. well, to organize everything. When he starts his journey there will be a certain amount of predetermined routes and ways that he has to take, even the people accompanying him are well prepared people for this kind of journey and are in a certain way predetermined. But in the first place it was his decision to do it; when underway problems are coming up it is his free will how to react, to continue or to go back with all the attached consequences. A lot of his journey is predetermined, but nobody would consider that he had no free will.
As many NDErs claim that they prepared their life beforehand, before being born, and due to the fact that time doesn't seem to be what we experience here (time in a linear way), and nobody really knows what time is, I would say that it is possible.

2. "Who / What" is the white light. Is it already God, or is it like a gatekeeper? Maybe the holy ghost? I mean is this white light the creator of the universe or "just" an super power "employee" that is responsible for the welcome + life review part? The people who are dying say that felt love like never before in their lives and that they want to stay near the light. Maybe the light has „the job“ to welcome new dead people and they cannot be near the light for eternity?

For this I have no real answer. Nobody on this earth really knows who or what GOD is, except that there might be an infinite intelligent energy. My own meaning is that the universe is intelligent, and has consciousness otherwise we wouldn't have it either (the human being is much too self-absorbed about it's intelligence). I trust that when NDErs say that there was an unconditional love that met them at the other side, that the things happening 'after' the arrival, will not be bad either.

3. Many people speak about their NDEs that they felt a lot of love and everything was alright. They "just" experienced the beginning of death. Could it be, that they come to the light, feel loved and after this positive experience the are send to a unhappy place because of their sins? Or just because the first part of dying is fun and the second part is no fun? I mean is an NDE a glimpse of the whole death experience or can it change an be totally different from what we now know? When they can not stay in the love light for eternity they maybe are no longer happy as a dead soul?

I trust that when NDErs say that there was an unconditional love that met them at the other side, that the things happening 'after' the arrival, will not be bad either. Logically speaking it would be much easier to not have a welcome committee awaiting anybody if things would be worse later on. Until today nobody down here knows how far a soul can go. About sins: this is a part of most religions where I believe that it was used to already doom people down here. (My very own idea is: If God is love then only love can merge with God, and if a person is taking along badness and hate when dying it cannot join God until it will be able to let go of it. Like two magnets when you put the two wrong ends together, they won't join.)

4. People see their loved ones who are already dead. On the other side many say, that we are reborn. How can that be? I mean, when I die, I am a soul and can "talk" to loved ones once they are dead. But I have to be reincarnated into a „new“ person on earth. Does "God" or who ever is master of carma etc, wait until my loved ones can see me? What I mean: Some people see their grand mother that says „welcome to the other side“. That means that the grand mother soul must be „herself“ and can not be born into another new identity on earth in the meantime, you know what i mean?

Good question. No real answer except (again) my own opinion.
Finally we have to look at what we consider our identity. Are we Mr. or Mrs. so and so, or are we eternal souls (or light beings) coming down here to play a part as Mr. or Mrs. so and so (as some NDErs claim). If so it wouldn't make any difference who or what we were down here, once we are over there and understand who we really are. We could easily appear like an entity we have once been and be ourselves nevertheless. I even read an NDE where it was told that his terrestrial identity was part of a community of souls that split up from a main soul for incarnation.

5. What is the purpose of life? Ok, love and knowledge ok. But what is this whole construction good for? Why are we part of god, and on the other hand we have to suffer for our deeds e.g. for suicide? We have to learn from our life on earth. Why? What does god need us for? Does he look at his / her own creation by creating us and giving us consciousness and eyes to see the creation which means herself? Ok, fine with that. But why this good deeds / sin stuff and this massive amount of suffering in the world. What function do we have for god? I mean, some people say, god is super wise and super powerful. Why does she / he use this awful construction of us people live and suffer for creating a higher soul? This does not seem very kind to me as a suffering human being.

Sorry no real answer to that.
The only idea I have is that on the other side it is impossible to have the same experiences as in a body. Apparently there we have knowledge, can create immediately by thought and imagination what we want, wish etc., and being in permanent connection with love we may not be able to understand hardship or negativity despite our knowledge. So maybe we sometimes need to incarnate in order to know ourselves better, to learn having compassion. A great many of NDErs claim that we all together are part of God. So maybe we are the part of God experiencing earth, playing around in creation.

6. Does the devil and hell exists? Are people send to hell for eternity or after suffering long enough, they can go to heaven?
Again, my own opinion. I don't believe in hell as a place. I believe that not being able to join with the eternal love is despair, until we understand who we are, and change our view and can let go of our negativity, then we will be able to join with love again. Many NDErs claim that we are never left alone and lost.

7. When people say, when they are dead they just ask a question and get an answer immediately. So when the soul life works so well with gaining knowledge, why do we forget everything when we come to earth and have so weak tools, like getting knowledge, remember things, etc. when we come from a higher more sophisticated place?
No other reply as under Nr. 5.

8. Are there other creatures in space? I mean if this reincarnation thing is whats happening, can I be reborn as an „alien“ and have to live a completely different life? Are animals also reborn?

No idea.
But it would make sense. The earth is not alone in the universe, and the universe is enormous. About animals: some NDErs met their passed pets.

9. Are new souls created? I mean, when a person is born the person needs a soul. Is it a recycled soul that already lived? I mean the population is exploding. Can we cope with already existing souls or are new souls created?
Difficult to say.
As I said under Nr. 4, as per some NDEs there might be parts of a bigger soul splitting for incarnation.


I could imagine that some questions seem stupid or strange or whatever to you. But whole life is strange, isn't it? So many reborn / samsara questions…but having to live and suffer once more or maybe a thousand times seems so hard for me and my soul. Maybe you can understand me a bit. I am not christian and have a nice worldview. God cares for me and I will live in heaven for ever. That's nice and consoling to a soul. But I do not have this advantage due to my own worldview.

That are very important topics for me and certainly not easy to answer. But if you can, you would do me super big favor and give my searching soul some new insights. Thank you all! Looking forward to your postings!

I don't think that your questions are stupid at all, on the contrary they show that you are a spiritual being, searching for answers. The problem with the answers from other beings is, they can be helpful as an additional idea, but can very well not fit with our own ideas. I personally learned a lot from the NDEs, they helped me to look differently at life, and in a certain way they helped me to change myself. I got a stronger trusting in life and lost many of my fears. So whatever will happen to me after death, I don't care if I will remain in my own actual identity or will lose it and merge with the 'ALL'. But I'm very sure that this existence in duality is not everything that exists. Physics and astronomy tell us that the visible and measurable part of the universe consists of about 5% of the whole universe, the rest is unknown. Quantum physics tell and show us that matter is not what we previously thought it is, namely solid. And newest biologic findings show that immaterial thought can change the matter of our brain. So science nowadays slowly closes up with spirituality.
The only " Stupid Question " is one that isn't asked

There is no such thing as a stupid question, but sometime's other people perceive a question to be different, or strange , or irrelevant .

That is their problem, not the person asking the question

Regarding your questions , there is no one here who is qualified to give a definitive answer to any of the questions, but we are able to guide you on your way to finding the answers that work for you.

As suggested by MarGuy, Read, Read and then Read some more and the answers you seek may be found in other peoples experiences, but you yourself are the only one who can say
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Daniel, I think your questions are excellent. Most can't really be answered, not completely anyway.

1. Some people say that they saw their future in an NDE. Does this mean that our lives are already predetermined, that everything is already writen like in a book, and we just live like robots toward the announced future? How can we change our lives by decisions, and free will when on the other side the future can be seen in an NDE?

I think all is known. As in all the choices we make and will make, are already known. That does not mean we can't sculpt our lives here.

6. Does the devil and hell exists? Are people send to hell for eternity or after suffering long enough, they can go to heaven?

I can only say that I do know that evil does exist. I try to avoid it at all times by keeping the holy spirit close.

7. When people say, when they are dead they just ask a question and get an answer imediately. So when the soul life works so well with gaining knowledge, why do we forget everything when we come to earth and have so weak tools, like getting knowledge, remember things, etc. when we come from a higher more sophisticated place?

I think if we brought back all that knowledge we would be unable to function in the earthy life. I think it is for our own good.

These are the only questions I feel able to comment on.
Marguy wrote: As I never had an NDE myself, I cannot claim that my answers to your questions will be correct. But having translated around 1200 NDEs in the last four years and having read many thousands of them, I came upon a lot of strange accounts.


Marguy, I have not yet had the opportunity to thank you for your excellent work. By translating all those accounts, you are giving people the opportunity to read things they would otherwise never be able to. :)
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Thank you Giulia,
Could say the same for you and the other admins on this site. If you wouldn't give your time and skill to sites like this one, we wouldn't be able to communicate together. So a big thank you, to all the admins from my side.
:D
I second that. Thank You All.
Wow, great questions! I want to get into this discussion later when I have more time!
Giulia wrote:
Welcome, Daniel! I look forward to hearing the answers to your many questions, which I am sure so many people share. :)

May I ask what you mean when you say that your worldview does not allow you to have a nice and consoling perspective?


Hi Giulia,

thank you very much for the nice welcome. With that I mean that in the age of 12 or 13 I decided that I can no longe believe in the Christian World view. I could not get different puzzle parts together.

I can not believe in a all loving, caring, and super powerful god and on the other side see innocent children suffer like having a hell directly here on earth.

The priest then say...yes...this is the free will and has nothing to do with god...he just did not want us to be like puppets. But then the same people say...believe in Jesus, God and whatever the bible say OR your will be doomed an live in hell on on the armageddon judgement day you have a problem.... this argumentation pretty seems to me that we are puppets in this case.

So my thoughts about religion brought me to the point that i can not believe in a loving god. On the other side, nature, the human body, the stars, just everything in nature and in the universe is so beautiful, so artfully designed. Very much high sophisicated stuff. A little bit to much for just a coincidence. I can not answer the question for my self. And so i have to live without a god, and I can tell you it pretty hurts.

I once made up my mind a lot about the worldview and developed a special one. We are all one. God is us. I am a part of god and the universe. I feel seperated but in reality I am not separated. We are all one in one creation. Like a water drop that comes back into the huge ocean. And we could be designed by a creator (maybe a powerfull one, but not a all super powerfull one) to have eyes and conciousnes...so that god can see himself / herself and all what he / she created through our eyes.This is the worldview I can relate most to.

What do you think about it? Looking forward to your postings. Thanks!
4. People see their loved onces who are already dead. On the other side many say, that we are reborn. How can that be? I mean, when I die, I am a soul and can "talk" to loved ones once they are dead. But I have to be reincarnated into a „new“ person on earth. Does "God" or who ever is master of carma etc, wait until my loved ones can see me? What I mean: Some people see their grand mother that says „welcome to the other side“. That means that the grand mother soul must be „herself“ and can not be born into another new identity on earth in the meantime, you know what i mean?


Do you mean that, if you see someone on the other side, then that means they have not reincarnated yet? Right, what about ancestors from long ago that some people say they see? Did those people not reincarnate?

5. What is the purpose of life? Ok, love and knowledge ok. But what is this whole construction good for? Why are we part of god, and on the other hand we have to suffer for our deeds e.g. for suicide? We have to learn from our life on earth. Why? What does god need us for? Does he look at his / her own creation by creating us and giving us concousness and eyes to see the creation which means herself? Ok, fine with that. But why this good deeds / sin stuff and this massive amount of suffering in the world. What function do we have for god? I mean, some people say, god is super wise and super powerful. Why does she / he use this awful construction of us people live and suffer for creating a higher soul? This does not seem very kind to me as a suffering human being.


THIS is the stuff that eludes me! Why would God create us and make us suffer all this BS on earth if He loves us so much? I do not understand this. The more hardship and sadness we suffer, the meaner we get, like a dog that has been kicked. Why do that to us if He wants us to be kind and loving?

My husband and I have talked about this. He says, "Why would you create something just to make it hurt? That is cruel."

He says, "I did not ask to be born. So I don't feel like I have some special purpose to complete in order to please Him. He is the one who put me here, so I am just going to do the best I can, but I don't feel like I owe Him anything."

Personally, I worry a lot about finding my "purpose", and I stress about it a LOT. But my husband is right, I think. If God wants me to do something in particular, then He needs to let me know what it is. Because how can He expect me to do it if I have no clue what it is?

Even love? I had no idea that love was the whole idea until I started reading these NDEs and stuff. The world tells you you have to be tough and aggressive to succeed in life. Seems cruel to send a person through life with all these mixed messages and then at the end tell them, "Sorry, you failed the TEST." Screw that, man. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

Also, what about this stuff with "remembering who you are." Some NDErs are sent to help people remember that they are souls from heaven. Well if You want us to remember, then why the feck do you make us forget, to begin with?

GRRRR, it just aggravates me. It seems very wrong and unfair from my perspective. I am going to probably get my behind kicked when I bring this up to God on the other side. Which I will. :twisted:

One other thing that I have a problem with, while we are on the subject. These NDErs that come back in lala land saying that this life isn't "real" and nothing matters because it's all an illusion. OK, tell that to the mom that just lost her child, or the soldier that is leaving his family to die in the trenches. This life is real. It is real TO US. Maybe the perspective is different over there but that does not matter one iota because we here on earth live earthly lives and it is REAL. I just want to tell those NDErs to go jump in a lake.

OK, sorry. Done now.
DaniWhite wrote: (...) in the age of 12 or 13 I decided that I can no longe believe in the Christian World view. I could not get different puzzle parts together.

I can not believe in a all loving, caring, and super powerful god and on the other side see innocent children suffer like having a hell directly here on earth.

The priest then say...yes...this is the free will and has nothing to do with god...he just did not want us to be like puppets. But then the same people say...believe in Jesus, God and whatever the bible say OR your will be doomed an live in hell on on the armageddon judgement day you have a problem.... this argumentation pretty seems to me that we are puppets in this case.

So my thoughts about religion brought me to the point that i can not believe in a loving god. On the other side, nature, the human body, the stars, just everything in nature and in the universe is so beautiful, so artfully designed. Very much high sophisicated stuff. A little bit to much for just a coincidence. I can not answer the question for my self. And so i have to live without a god, and I can tell you it pretty hurts.

I once made up my mind a lot about the worldview and developed a special one. We are all one. God is us. I am a part of god and the universe. I feel seperated but in reality I am not separated. We are all one in one creation. Like a water drop that comes back into the huge ocean. And we could be designed by a creator (maybe a powerfull one, but not a all super powerfull one) to have eyes and conciousnes...so that god can see himself / herself and all what he / she created through our eyes.This is the worldview I can relate most to.

What do you think about it? Looking forward to your postings. Thanks!

Hi. Daniel.

Thanks for explaining. Yes, based on my own experience, becoming agnostic has its hurtful sides as it deprives us of that wonderful sense of belonging to an unconditionally loving point for reference, but this need not continue forever. If you read the NDEs that are posted on the forum you will most probably find supporting evidence about the fact that we are

DaniWhite wrote: like a water drop that comes back into the huge ocean.


When I was a teenager I felt it was logically and reasonably impossible that each religious community held the truth and all others were wrong. It did not make sense to me. There must have been something at the root of each of these spiritual trends that came from the same Source, and there must have been something meaningful about that Source that made whatever dogma that humans create some sort of shield from the fact that, for most of our physical lives, we simply don’t know the whole story, and either we belong to a community whose philosophy we trust or we accept the fact that we need to make our own research about what rings true to us.

For instance, if it rings true to you that NDErs are saying the truth about death not being the end, then that’s where your agnostic research is leading you to. If your feel that

DaniWhite wrote: we could be designed by a creator (maybe a powerfull one, but not a all super powerfull one) to have eyes and conciousnes...so that god can see himself / herself and all what he / she created through our eyes.


then I do not see why you should be denied the opportunity to find more and more inspiration from reading the accounts coming from Near Death Experiencers and from your own life experiences to regain your understanding that “God cares for me and I will live in heaven for ever” which is “nice and consoling to a soul”.

I have never had a NDE myself, but I would like to try and offer my input about questions 3 and 4:

DaniWhite wrote: 3. Many people speak about their NDEs that they felt a lot of love and everything was alright. They "just" experienced the beginning of death. Could it be, that they come to the light, feel loved and after this positive experience the are send to a unhappy place because of their sins? Or just because the first part of dying is fun and the second part is no fun? I mean is an NDE a glimpse of the whole death expirience or can it change an be totally different from what we now know? When they can not stay in the love light for eternety they maybe are no longer happy as a dead soul?


Based on my understanding, many people who have had a NDE come back with renewed motivation to live this life in the best way they know how, knowing that they are not being judged and that god is not judgemental, even though we humans living in the here and now need to be judgemental in order to make sense of the world. Many who have had a NDE feel that they have a new colourful vision of life, that their life is no longer in black and white, and find that they no longer fit into “black and white” frames of mind, which many belief-based communities require from their members. Here is why it can feel hurtful to be agnostic and not belong to a community with strict rules, because you feel you lack that sense of belonging that you feel you are entitled to. But so many NDErs describe that sense of belonging being restored at time of death and actually realise they “remember” it from beyond linear time. I have personally come to the conclusion that as children we simply know that everything will be fine because we are still part of that Home/Oneness, and it is only because of the hurtful sense of separation that we start to experience at a certain point that we temporarily lose it.

It may well be that we lose that sense of belonging and enter the world of separation for a purpose that escapes our logic mind, but is nonetheless very meaningful to who we really are and the ocean our drop comes from. So I rationally see no reason for the first part of death being “fun” as opposed to the next part being awful. I suspect that fear may come from those belief systems that are designed to manipulate us by promising eternal damnation or a countless number of lives to keep us in check out of fear. If we are really evil and sadist, I would not expect a NDE not to reflect that side back to us like a mirror reflects our physical image. So no, I do not think that a pleasant beginning of death is tricking us into believing that death is a two stage process involving punishment and sorrow.

DaniWhite wrote: 4. People see their loved onces who are already dead. On the other side many say, that we are reborn. How can that be? I mean, when I die, I am a soul and can "talk" to loved ones once they are dead. But I have to be reincarnated into a „new“ person on earth. Does "God" or who ever is master of carma etc, wait until my loved ones can see me? What I mean: Some people see their grand mother that says „welcome to the other side“. That means that the grand mother soul must be „herself“ and can not be born into another new identity on earth in the meantime, you know what i mean?


In my opinion the notion of reincarnation can create a lot of confusion if you think of it in terms of linear time, i.e. one life lived after the other one. In my opinion the words “karma” and “sin” can also result in confusion if they are seen in terms of guilt and punishment. NDErs often report life reviews as a wonderful experience in the light of a non-judgmental and unconditionally loving perspective that makes even insignificant acts of kindness on our side appear huge in the eyes of this broader standpoint.

I am not saying that one cannot be reborn on earth or on another planet or whatever, if they so wish, but I have the feeling that our soul and/or spirit is much bigger than time, judgement and separation, and that any other life we might choose to live has nothing to do with not being back Home with our loved ones within the blink of an eye once we are physically dead. If the thought of being re-born annoys you, you could think of it in this way: time as we know it belongs to this earthly reality; if our greater self/soul/spirit truly chose to experience separation as a means of growth, or co-creation, or whatever, and it chose to experience multiple forms of separation in the form of multiple lives, then it did so “beyond” linear time, then these multiple lives could well be existing in parallel dimensions which will become one once we physically die. I realise it sounds a farfetched theory, because we are so attached to the notion of time, and to the need or desire to re-do things in a better way at a later “time”, to make up for whatever we feel we did wrong... That’s human. But this need not mean that it has to happen “within” linear time. It may already be happening without us knowing, it may happen through the way we more wisely and lovingly live our lives once we find out that we are worthy of love irrespective of how judgemental others or society may be, it may happen in the form of our life review, or it may never happen, if we so choose. That is my own personal opinion of course.

blue102 wrote: My husband and I have talked about this. He says, "Why would you create something just to make it hurt? That is cruel."


Blue, may I come up with another question, which I have often asked myself? Why do people have children if they are upset about not having asked to be born? Could there be something compulsive about creation that eludes us and that we simply do not have an answer for?

This reminds me that Igor Sibaldi (Milan, Italy, 15 June 1957), an Italian writer, scholar of theology and history of religion, who was born from Russian mother and Italian father, has translated the first 11 Chapters of Genesis into Italian and highlights the fact that during the history of creation, specifically on the sixth day, the writer of Genesis changes from referring to Divinity with the word Elohim (which he translates as “the whole of divinity”, just as we could say “the whole of mankind”) to IHWH (pronounced Ihoah), an individual god who can enter time and space and can set limitations and also starts NOT doing things. It is fascinating to read the translation and the comments. I wonder whether any English speaking scholar/researcher has worked on this text and made similar comments. They actually remind me of Daniel’s remarks about God not being that super. If Genesis, written 3000 years ago, genuinely conveys a shift in creation from “the whole of divinity” to an individual god of limitation, then I wonder. According to Sibaldi, the ”whole of divinity” (the plural word Elohim) could not enter time and space, which might be why they were only in charge of the first part of creation (or of “this” creation” anyway).

Should this be true, could it be possible that some people who have mystical experiences get a glimpse of “the whole of divinity” and others don’t? Could it be that a god of limitation (a not so super god) was required in order to coordinate the here and now in a more efficient way? Could the here and now with all its suffering represent the outposts of creation, the no-man’s-land where, according to Dannion Brinkley's NDE, only heroes and heroines come to co-create with God?

How many questions!
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Giulia wrote: This reminds me that Igor Sibaldi (Milan, Italy, 15 June 1957), an Italian writer, scholar of theology and history of religion, who was born from Russian mother and Italian father, has translated the first 11 Chapters of Genesis into Italian and highlights the fact that during the history of creation, specifically on the sixth day, the writer of Genesis changes from referring to Divinity with the word Elohim (which he translates as “the whole of divinity”, just as we could say “the whole of mankind”) to IHWH (pronounced Ihoah), an individual god who can enter time and space and can set limitations and also starts NOT doing things. It is fascinating to read the translation and the comments. I wonder whether any English speaking scholar/researcher has worked on this text and made similar comments. They actually remind me of Daniel’s remarks about God not being that super. If Genesis, written 3000 years ago, genuinely conveys a shift in creation from “the whole of divinity” to an individual god of limitation, then I wonder. According to Sibaldi, the ”whole of divinity” (the plural word Elohim) could not enter time and space, which might be why they were only in charge of the first part of creation (or of “this” creation” anyway).


Just for further information, our local priest who died in 2008, once told our bible course that he studied scientific research about the Bible and Genesis in Paris before he came to his post. As per his sayings apparently text researchers have been ( around the sixties of last century) thoroughly checking the way how Genesis was written, in terms of what type of words were used, what type of expressions etc. and they came to the conclusion that the Genesis text was not written by one person only, that it is a compilation of at least two different sources, and that one of these sources uses the term Elohim, while the other source uses the term IHWH, and the researchers could define what part was from one and what part was from the other source. Apparently even 'normal' people can still see this, when reading the part where God created man, there are two very distinct story parts about when God created man.

I'm not drawing any further conlusions though.

The only other thing that I would like to emphasize, is that we as humans are born into the culture of our country, and we are strongly influenced by this culture. If we want to know things differently, we have to do research and a lot of reading and keep an open mind. We have to collect as much information as we can get and then try to make up our own mind. Luckily we are today in a time where it is much easier as ever before to collect information, with internet etc.. NDEs can help us with this, in showing us that there is more to life than just what we have here.
blue102 wrote: THIS is the stuff that eludes me! Why would God create us and make us suffer all this BS on earth if He loves us so much? I do not understand this. The more hardship and sadness we suffer, the meaner we get, like a dog that has been kicked. Why do that to us if He wants us to be kind and loving?


The argumentation that it is not god who makes us suffer but the free will an our choices is for me like putting my child in a hot bath tub. And then I say. It's not me who is cruel, its the water thats bad.

It would be ok for me to make good and bad experiences and feel love / no love and so on. But there are children growing up in war countries or in very bad families. They can not change their fate by their free will or any choices they make. And this is not ok in my view and is a contradiction to a loving god.

You said something about a dog that gets kicked. Yes, I have a very loving heart. But I received much love from my mother when I was young. So I imitate that love because I experienced how great it is. I dont know if I could have the same feelings, when no one loved me as a child. Probably not. So is it the fault of the one who is bad because of his / her bad experiences?

How about you? Did you experience a lot of bad stuff that makes you feel so angry? Or is it just the lack of answers we get?

blue102 wrote: Also, what about this stuff with "remembering who you are." Some NDErs are sent to help people remember that they are souls from heaven. Well if You want us to remember, then why the feck do you make us forget, to begin with?


Yes this is the main question. When I read about this huge knowledge that we receive as "dead" souls, why do have to forget all this great knowledge and use these weak knowledge tools we have as human beeings....I can not find an answer to this one...
Giulia wrote:
Hi. Daniel.

Thanks for explaining. Yes, based on my own experience, becoming agnostic has its hurtful sides as it deprives us of that wonderful sense of belonging to an unconditionally loving point for reference, but this need not continue forever. If you read the NDEs that are posted on the forum you will most probably find supporting evidence about the fact that we are


Thank you for your kind words. I find your thoughts very bright and reflected without dogma. I really like this. If i find the answer to my question, why innocent children suffer and how this can be combined with a loving and careing god, than I could go back in the state of beeing connected with god.

Giulia wrote: For instance, if it rings true to you that NDErs are saying the truth about death not being the end, then that’s where your agnostic research is leading you to.

For me it seems to be true. There are many experiences that have been collected. And the people made similar experiences and they could "see" what was going on while they could not use their senses. That sounds kind of convincing to me. And these people talk about love and a life review of a loving light being. Not this judgemental thing. They do not want any money, or want power over people, as church and priest has done it for centuries and still does it today. So they have no advantage from lying, do they?

Giulia wrote: I am not saying that one cannot be reborn on earth or on another planet or whatever, if they so wish, but I have the feeling that our soul and/or spirit is much bigger than time, judgement and separation, and that any other life we might choose to live has nothing to do with not being back Home with our loved ones within the blink of an eye once we are physically dead. If the thought of being re-born annoys you, you could think of it in this way: time as we know it belongs to this earthly reality; if our greater self/soul/spirit truly chose to experience separation as a means of growth, or co-creation, or whatever, and it chose to experience multiple forms of separation in the form of multiple lives, then it did so “beyond” linear time, then these multiple lives could well be existing in parallel dimensions which will become one once we physically die. I realise it sounds a farfetched theory, because we are so attached to the notion of time, and to the need or desire to re-do things in a better way at a later “time”, to make up for whatever we feel we did wrong... That’s human. But this need not mean that it has to happen “within” linear time. It may already be happening without us knowing, it may happen through the way we more wisely and lovingly live our lives once we find out that we are worthy of love irrespective of how judgemental others or society may be, it may happen in the form of our life review, or it may never happen, if we so choose. That is my own personal opinion of course.


I dont think what you are saying about time is strange. I heard it often that time is an illusion (in budhist literature) and einstein said it... And once I experienced "no time" or "eternal time" ...I did not feel past, presence and that time is ticking by...but there was just the presence and that feeling would last for ever i though....and the feeling of melting with the universe and that we are all one. It was when I tried magic mushrooms. So I "really" experienced that. It was as real for me as you can feel cold water, hear music, or see the blue sky. So it is possible to feel that. Maybe some budhists can reach this via meditation, or some by dancing or whatever. I experienced it in that way, and there must be a reason why in ancient cultures these mushrooms where used by the old and wise medicine man, or whatever to have a ritual. I do not want to promote this in any way...I am just telling a true story from my past....
Marguy wrote: As per his sayings apparently text researchers have been ( around the sixties of last century) thoroughly checking the way how Genesis was written, in terms of what type of words were used, what type of expressions etc. and they came to the conclusion that the Genesis text was not written by one person only, that it is a compilation of at least two different sources, and that one of these sources ...


Hi, Marguy. Thanks for your comments and sorry I am late in replying. Yes, this book I quoted from provides a long introduction listing the history of the various researches conducted on Genesis and this conclusion was also covered. The point I was interested in had to do with the idea of a god of limitation: could it be that NDErs get a glimpse of the whole of divinity, but our human filters only allow us to perceive a god of limitation, that is human beings tend to create god in their own image?

About polytheism, I must say Catholics tend to be so: we have a huge number of Saints over here whom are venerated depending on their own specific gifts and talents. They appear to make up for the shortcomings of the official Bible God.

DaniWhite wrote: If i find the answer to my question, why innocent children suffer and how this can be combined with a loving and careing god, than I could go back in the state of beeing connected with god.

Hi, Daniel. I am afraid none of us has an answer for that. Many NDErs are sent back to this life without the memory of why they came here, and those who do come back with the memory may sometimes find it difficult to convey it to us, who live on a plane where suffering and death are real and cause a lot of pain and grief.

DaniWhite wrote: They do not want any money, or want power over people, as church and priest has done it for centuries and still does it today. So they have no advantage from lying, do they?


In fact, based on my personal experience, many NDErs or people who have otherworldly /mystical experiences are afraid of sharing this information, because society may decide they are not “normal”.

DaniWhite wrote: I dont think what you are saying about time is strange. I heard it often that time is an illusion (in budhist literature) and einstein said it... And once I experienced "no time" or "eternal time" ...I did not feel past, presence and that time is ticking by...but there was just the presence and that feeling would last for ever i though....and the feeling of melting with the universe and that we are all one.


Yes, that sounds similar to what many NDErs report. I had a similar experience upon waking up, one morning, which I have not yet shared here, which occurred during the hypnopompic stage of sleep. Based on my understanding, what your experience and mine could have had in common is the unusual concentration of Dimethyltryptamine (DMT), which is naturally produced by the body and which Rick Strassman MD has named “the Spirit Molecule”. Of course, we could never be able to live our physical life if we were not aware of our clocks ticking, just as we cannot live our waking lives in the hypnopompic stage of sleep. Yet, like, NDEs, we get the opportunity to have and remember otherworldly experiences every night, and writing down what I remember first thing in the morning (even only just the "feeking" of it), has always proved a good method for me, as these flashes of understanding tend to soon elude me, once I am fully awake.
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Giulia wrote: The point I was interested in had to do with the idea of a god of limitation: could it be that NDErs get a glimpse of the whole of divinity, but our human filters only allow us to perceive a god of limitation, that is human beings tend to create god in their own image?


This could be so, as some NDErs stated that they couldn't look at 'what they called God' because it was too powerful for them. They had like a feeling that this would blind their soul. Others felt that if they had full contact whith "God" they would have been unable to come back after that.

My opinion is that NDErs, in a certain way, are getting what helps them adapting better to the unusual situation of being on the other side. In a way like they are co-creators. I had a translation once, where the person was asked what kind of appearance he would like, and upon his wondering about, the voice said that some feel better with Jesus, others with other appearances, when he agreed that Jesus was perfect he got the presence of Jesus.

DaniWhite wrote: I did not feel past, presence and that time is ticking by...but there was just the presence and that feeling would last for ever i though....and the feeling of melting with the universe and that we are all one.


I had a similar experience long time ago, where I knew that no thought was ever lost (gone), and that the Universe was oneness, and we all are one with the Universe. I was fully awake at the time and I had an intense desire to merge with it. This lasted only a few seconds, but had a lasting effect on me.
Tempting though it may be, I'm not going to jump into the thick of this thread, there's just way too much to unpack to make sense of it all. But I definitely want to put in a word of support for blue102:

blue102 wrote: THIS is the stuff that eludes me! Why would God create us and make us suffer all this BS on earth if He loves us so much? I do not understand this. The more hardship and sadness we suffer, the meaner we get, like a dog that has been kicked. Why do that to us if He wants us to be kind and loving?

My husband and I have talked about this. He says, "Why would you create something just to make it hurt? That is cruel."

He says, "I did not ask to be born. So I don't feel like I have some special purpose to complete in order to please Him. He is the one who put me here, so I am just going to do the best I can, but I don't feel like I owe Him anything."

Personally, I worry a lot about finding my "purpose", and I stress about it a LOT. But my husband is right, I think. If God wants me to do something in particular, then He needs to let me know what it is. Because how can He expect me to do it if I have no clue what it is?

Even love? I had no idea that love was the whole idea until I started reading these NDEs and stuff. The world tells you you have to be tough and aggressive to succeed in life. Seems cruel to send a person through life with all these mixed messages and then at the end tell them, "Sorry, you failed the TEST." Screw that, man. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

Also, what about this stuff with "remembering who you are." Some NDErs are sent to help people remember that they are souls from heaven. Well if You want us to remember, then why the feck do you make us forget, to begin with?

GRRRR, it just aggravates me. It seems very wrong and unfair from my perspective. I am going to probably get my behind kicked when I bring this up to God on the other side. Which I will. :twisted:

One other thing that I have a problem with, while we are on the subject. These NDErs that come back in lala land saying that this life isn't "real" and nothing matters because it's all an illusion. OK, tell that to the mom that just lost her child, or the soldier that is leaving his family to die in the trenches. This life is real. It is real TO US. Maybe the perspective is different over there but that does not matter one iota because we here on earth live earthly lives and it is REAL. I just want to tell those NDErs to go jump in a lake.

OK, sorry. Done now.


I completely support this kind of inquiry and questioning, and encourage you to trust it and go with it. It is so easy to get lost in the weeds and hung up on this or that idea or conviction. The real movement happening here is that the part of you that makes sense of things, that tries to bring disparate things together and make them whole, is active and working. That's a sure-fire sign of the "presence of spirit", of "higher self" at work. There are many other words we could use to describe it; coherence, integration, at-one-ment (the Christians have really botched that one). However you want to describe it, the key thing is, you're tuned into it, you know what it feels like, and that's what counts. Go with it.

In my experience, the main reason things don't make sense is when the ideas that embody them are insufficient, incomplete, off-mark. The obvious way forward is to let go of them and let ones that actually make sense take their place. (Easier said than done, especially when some concepts have thousands of years of momentum and dogma behind them, and everyone around you is stuck using the same old same old.)

Personally, this translates into taking a good look at our upbringing and conditioning, and finding ways to free yourself from it. This can be a bit messy; we're learning as we go. So be easy on yourself.

I especially support your notion that any "reality" or "truth" that relies on the denial of the physical is BS. Psychology has a word for this split-off, it's called "dissociation". You can google it.

You're very fortunate to have an ally in your husband.
THIS is the stuff that eludes me! Why would God create us and make us suffer all this BS on earth if He loves us so much? I do not understand this. The more hardship and sadness we suffer, the meaner we get, like a dog that has been kicked. Why do that to us if He wants us to be kind and loving?

My husband and I have talked about this. He says, "Why would you create something just to make it hurt? That is cruel."

He says, "I did not ask to be born. So I don't feel like I have some special purpose to complete in order to please Him. He is the one who put me here, so I am just going to do the best I can, but I don't feel like I owe Him anything."

Personally, I worry a lot about finding my "purpose", and I stress about it a LOT. But my husband is right, I think. If God wants me to do something in particular, then He needs to let me know what it is. Because how can He expect me to do it if I have no clue what it is?

Even love? I had no idea that love was the whole idea until I started reading these NDEs and stuff. The world tells you you have to be tough and aggressive to succeed in life. Seems cruel to send a person through life with all these mixed messages and then at the end tell them, "Sorry, you failed the TEST." Screw that, man. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

Also, what about this stuff with "remembering who you are." Some NDErs are sent to help people remember that they are souls from heaven. Well if You want us to remember, then why the feck do you make us forget, to begin with?

GRRRR, it just aggravates me. It seems very wrong and unfair from my perspective. I am going to probably get my behind kicked when I bring this up to God on the other side. Which I will. :twisted:


I understand the idea of suffering disturbs you, but this is hardly a strike against a good and all-loving deity. You say you don't understand how God could do this or that, but according to various accounts in NDE literature and some pre-birth or in-between life accounts there is little or no suggestion God forces anyone to incarnate into something so terrible, it suggests that people willingly come here to learn lessons, test themselves and willingly participate in the imperfection of it all. A soul may create a lesson plan, who they'll be born to, where and when, and these are not accidents, they coordinate with other souls (including animal souls) to create opportunities and choose to incarnate into circumstances that will give them a chance to learn what they need to, to help others learn or bring positive change to the world etc.. If experiencing some suffering can prove beneficial, it seems reasonable a soul will choose a path that can include unpleasant experiences. Rather than trivialize suffering, NDEs suggest it creates opportunities to experience compassion and forgiveness, to foster co-operation and display heroism and good character. The soul doesn't appear to be irreparably damaged by the process and it may be the soul simply doesn't view suffering the way we do when incarnated.

What you seem to be discussing generally, is often understood as the "Problem of Evil", it's not a new concern, philosophers and theologians have been debating it for generations and nowadays it crops up occasionally under the guise of promoting New Atheism. I'm not familiar with responses from non-Abrahamic faiths but Christian thinkers have answered and rebutted it in various ways: free will, arguing that a greater good justifies allowance of suffering, questioning the idea that God is a moral agent of the sort obligated to prevent human suffering. I understand that people may not find any of these ideas emotionally satisfying but they do generally compliment what is reported by NDEers or have philosophical tradition behind them. I offer them for consideration and suggest that questions of this nature are ancient but perhaps not unanswerable.


Sources or further reading:

Pre-birth memories and planning:

oberf.org
cosmiccradle.com
yoursoulsplan.com - Robert Schwartz

other:

edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/10/laws-evil-god-challenge.html
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/12/unbroken-and-problem-of-evil.html

I include the above because I believe philosopher Edward Feser gives the "Problem of Evil" reasonable treatment, he is Catholic but his arguments rest on philosophical arguments rather than quoting Bible scripture. Long, but if you're into philosophy or metaphysics, worth a look.
Precaud wrote: I especially support your notion that any "reality" or "truth" that relies on the denial of the physical is BS. Psychology has a word for this split-off, it's called "dissociation". You can google it.


Thoughts about reality here and reality in NDE.

Reality: As per Wikipedia
Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined.[1] In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible. A still broader definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist.
Philosophers, mathematicians, and other ancient and modern thinkers, such as Aristotle, Plato, Frege, Wittgenstein, and Russell, have made a distinction between thought corresponding to reality, coherent abstractions (thoughts of things that are imaginable but not real), and that which cannot even be rationally thought. By contrast existence is often restricted solely to that which has physical existence or has a direct basis in it in the way that thoughts do in the brain.

In thinking it thoroughly through I came to the following conclusions:
Reality is in fact very relative, subjective and more or less real depending on different facts. Reality is the more real, the closer it is connected to our consciousness, as an example: braking a leg is more real to us when it is our own leg, rather than the leg of our neighbor. We feel it. We don't feel the neighbors leg. Nature is more real to us if we are outside and can feel air, sunshine, rain, as when we are in a car or in a house. Though we don't make that distinction in everyday life. Once we experienced something as real we consider it that way, even if we don't experience it completely so.
When we were small, life was probably more real to us than today. Why? Because we are more aware when we do something a first time. Once our body is taking over with automatism, we are not so aware anymore. Like walking, we just walk without thinking about it, even sometimes without even being aware that we are walking. Same when driving a car.
Our brain, (subconscious), is doing a lot of work for us without we being aware of it. There are different parts of reality. The reality that our body is experiencing, the reality that our brain creates for our consciousness, the reality that we assume 'knowing' but what we are not experiencing on our own. (What we get to know on TV, and from hear say, school learning etc...)
We experience our reality here through the detour of our body and it's senses. It is not an immediate experience as it has to pass through our senses. But then, finally every reality is only made available to us through consciousness. If we have no consciousness then we cannot experience anything.
Well, if we understand and feel that reality is more real when it is in a closer connection with our consciousness, then it might be easier to understand NDErs when they say that the reality of the other side is more real than the reality here. Because there, consciousness is apparently in direct (immediate) contact (merged) with that reality, with no intermediate medium (a body) to experience it. It is an immediate and direct experience.
Nevertheless our reality here is also real, as long as our consciousness is feeling it that way, because of the relativity of reality depending on our consciousness.
Marguy wrote:
Precaud wrote: I especially support your notion that any "reality" or "truth" that relies on the denial of the physical is BS. Psychology has a word for this split-off, it's called "dissociation". You can google it.


Thoughts about reality here and reality in NDE. {snip}


Hi Marguy, I'll let you and blue102 work out the details of what "reality" is. I put those words in quotes because they were blue102's, not mine. My experience has been, that's a very difficult context to frame the discussion in. My point was and is; any view of cosmology/creation/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-it, that denies or minimizes the physical world is a flawed view. It's really silly that we, physically manifest beings, are even having this discussion!
Garry wrote: The only " Stupid Question " is one that isn't asked


I must agree with Garry here. This thread is the result of legitimate questions and I find that, so far, everyone has done their best to provide their input in the best way they know how.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Hi Dani!

I'm very new to this forum, but I've been reading NDE's for about 10 years. I read your questions and I know of a website that could answer many of them I think. It has opened my mind and helped me to understand things that make no sense down here.

www.Afterlife101.com

I go back to this site time and time again looking for answers, or just comfort. I always find it there.

Hope it helps.
Hi everyone,

I want to share some thoughts about the existence and our relation to god. I know the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42 :lol: But here is what is currently going through my head.

Today I read a very interesting NDE report on this website.

" Did you have a sense of knowing special knowledge, universal order and/or purpose? Yes We are eternal beings! We were not “created” because we always existed, without beginning or end! We are God experiencing who we are through matter. Life is an unending circle. One day we shall all be reunited again, and again we shall “explode” and start all over again! All that can be imagined may exist because it originates from universal consciousness (knowledge), thought is creative! Here things occur with a delay, but on the other side they happen instantly. God (us) is a vibration, love and this vibration create light. The more we love, the more we emit light because we vibrate faster!"


This is very interesting. It is not the first NDE report that says something about vibrating faster and the connection between this higher faster vibration and a higher soul state. Another guy said that his soul began to vibrate faster when he was near the light being and that he could not stand the faster vibration. And that the higher vibration is a higher state of the soul.

Last summer I read a book about physics from Brian Greene. The book is absolutely magnificent.
He says that the stringtheory is one theory that could explain the universe. Meaning that even smaller than atoms there are strings. These strings vibrate. And the kind of vibration of the string then creates an atom or the other "hard" matter. And if the vibration is different a different atom is created. The vibration creates the matter. In the bushism / hinduism they say that there is a sound (afterglow) of creation.

Regarding the big bang and the beginning there are several theories. One is that the universe at the max. point implodes again. After this a new big bang could happen. I know this is a lot of assumption and thinking about things we do not know exactly. But it is fun to be creative.

The universal consciousness is something that the student of Siegmund Freund also thought about a lot. Carl Gustav Jung said, that there could be something like a collective subconscious. Meaning that we can get experiences out of that collective subconsciousness although we did not make that "real live" experience ourselves.

And the dutch doctor Pim van Lommel wanted to explain NDEs scientifically. He think that one explanation could be that our brain is not the creator of reality. But it is like that we are radio or television receivers. We get a signal out of the ether. But even if the television set is broken the signal is still in the ether. Meaning that we are somehow connected with our brain to exising things but that the brain is not the origin of everything but a interconnector and that our self could be eternal in the ether.

A lot of crazy thoughts but I can see that a couple of very intelligent people see cosmic things similar. And that is fascinating.
Another spritual experience I read online, I would like to share with you.

I became pure energy that was floating in the room. Everything is energy and I AM energy. I only have to transform myself. I could feel my body on a completely different level and also ged rid of my body-feeling completely and just be consciousness or pure spirit.

Then I came to a point where I split myself and now existed a few times in parallel. I saw that between these different entities there was a main stream that connected all the entities of myself. This stream is the core of my essence. That was my true SELF. Immortal. Not changeable. Not splitable.

All my thoughts, feelings, opinions, everything I thought all my lifetime was me that was on top of the mainstream. It was not the core and was not my real self.

Then I saw this stream also in my friend who sat next to me. But between his stream and my stream there was no difference. It was one and the same. He was me. All what exists is me. The stream of life, the pure essence.

Then I saw both sides (my friend and me) at the same time. I saw that ONE is EVERYTHING else. The ONE creates two different things out of itself. Both things are ONE from the standpoint of the ONE. From the standpoint of the TWO that 2 things are seperated.

I understood that all human beings are created out of god and are the same. Only their own experience / standpoint make them think they are seperated. The separation is an illusion. The world of phenomena. Behind this reality we are all one.

I saw that the ONE can not exist without the EVERYTHING. And that EVERYTHING is the creation of the ONE.

This experience was created by Ayahuasca. A drug used in ceremonies in the Amazonas.


This dualitity or trinity that is created out of the one is also represented in a lot of very old spiritual literature. Interesting.
Hi apwerner

Welcome to the forum.
Thank you for the link.
I went there and it seems very interesting.
DaniWhite wrote:
blue102 wrote: THIS is the stuff that eludes me! Why would God create us and make us suffer all this BS on earth if He loves us so much? I do not understand this. The more hardship and sadness we suffer, the meaner we get, like a dog that has been kicked. Why do that to us if He wants us to be kind and loving?


The argumentation that it is not god who makes us suffer but the free will an our choices is for me like putting my child in a hot bath tub. And then I say. It's not me who is cruel, its the water thats bad.

It would be ok for me to make good and bad experiences and feel love / no love and so on. But there are children growing up in war countries or in very bad families. They can not change their fate by their free will or any choices they make. And this is not ok in my view and is a contradiction to a loving god.

You said something about a dog that gets kicked. Yes, I have a very loving heart. But I received much love from my mother when I was young. So I imitate that love because I experienced how great it is. I dont know if I could have the same feelings, when no one loved me as a child. Probably not. So is it the fault of the one who is bad because of his / her bad experiences?


One possible answer to this conundrum might lie in what some NDEr's report, namely that a soul actually chooses beforehand a particular life and its hardships to learn from it.

DaniWhite wrote:
blue102 wrote: Also, what about this stuff with "remembering who you are." Some NDErs are sent to help people remember that they are souls from heaven. Well if You want us to remember, then why the feck do you make us forget, to begin with?


Yes this is the main question. When I read about this huge knowledge that we receive as "dead" souls, why do have to forget all this great knowledge and use these weak knowledge tools we have as human beeings....I can not find an answer to this one...


Guilia gave an answer above, (paraphrasing) that we might not be able to function and focus on our individual purpose here on earth if we were constantly aware of everything. This has been mentioned in some NDEs I read.
apwerner wrote: Hi Dani!

I'm very new to this forum, but I've been reading NDE's for about 10 years. I read your questions and I know of a website that could answer many of them I think. It has opened my mind and helped me to understand things that make no sense down here.

http://www.Afterlife101.com

I go back to this site time and time again looking for answers, or just comfort. I always find it there.

Hope it helps.



Hi apwerner! Thank you for this link! Fascinating!
I want to answer to a couple of questions in the first post of this (excellent) thread. (Thank you Dani for starting it!) I did not have an NDE myself, and my answers are based on insights I gleaned from an OBE I had, on intuition, and on what I read in NDE accounts here on nderf.

DaniWhite wrote: 4. People see their loved onces who are already dead. On the other side many say, that we are reborn. How can that be? I mean, when I die, I am a soul and can "talk" to loved ones once they are dead. But I have to be reincarnated into a „new“ person on earth. Does "God" or who ever is master of carma etc, wait until my loved ones can see me? What I mean: Some people see their grand mother that says „welcome to the other side“. That means that the grand mother soul must be „herself“ and can not be born into another new identity on earth in the meantime, you know what i mean?


I believe people's deceased loved ones wait for other close relatives/friends to be able to welcome them on the other side, before they choose to incarnate again.

DaniWhite wrote: 6. Does the devil and hell exists? Are people send to hell for eternity or after suffering long enough, they can go to heaven?


From what I read in NDE accounts, there is no hell as such, and nobody is sent to hell, but there is a state where souls carry so much negative emotions (guilt, regret, anger, etc) with them that they are unable to see the light and experience the love. But that light/love is not denied to them, they simply can't see or feel it, until they are able to let go of those emotions and forgive themselves. In some NDEs people reported being in a dark, scary, or lonely place only to find themselves quickly moving out of it as soon as they remembered or asked for the light.

DaniWhite wrote: 8. Are their other creatures in space? I mean if this reincarnation thing is whats happening, can I be reborn as an „alien“ and have to live a completely different life? Are animals also reborn?

9. Are new souls created? I mean, when a person is born the person needs a soul. Is it a recycled soul that already lived? I mean the population is exploding. Can we cope with already exisiting souls or are new souls created?


Regarding other creatures/aliens, I remember one NDE where the soul was shown other planets with other life forms, some more advanced than us, others less. He was told he could incarnate there if he wanted to.

Regarding animals, I believe they undergo the same development of consciousness as we do, but they are still on a simpler level (I don't want to use the term "lower level" as it sounds negative). I further believe that the current explosion of the human population is due to many animals reaching the point of consciousness where they can try to come back as a human.

You should really start reading this (if not done so yet):
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives ... counts.htm

You will find answers to many of your questions in these accounts.
Hey Martina,

thanks a lot for your reply. Can you please post a link to the NDE that talks about other planets and live forms? I would be super interested to read the text.

Thanks a lot!
Hi Dani, this one

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experien ... 7s_nde.htm


Other life forms on other planets, and the possibility to incarnate on other planets, are also mentioned several times on this website:

http://www.afterlife101.com/

(Questions and answers with a spirit guide, a fascinating read!)
Thank you Martina for the link!

At the moment I am reading the book mindsight from kenneth ring. Did anyone here in the community already read some ndes here on this website where blind people said that they could "see" something during the nde? Thank you for any hints and your insights regarding this topic.
Dani, these two (blind, could see during NDE) are from the "Exceptional Accounts" page I had linked above:

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experien ... _r_nde.htm

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experien ... _g_nde.htm
Hey Martina,

Thank you very much for the links. The NDEs were super interesting!
What puzzles me is that blind people describe things as if they were never blind.

I mean in the book from kenneth ring and in your links they said e.g. i could see gardens and a train while i was flying upwards.

We learned for a long time to connect our visual sense with the other senses like touch and hear. I cant imagine how someone who never saw somehing before can look down a city and say this is a train this is a garden. I cant imagine how this knowledge can just be there in the moment of mind sight.

Do you have any ideas to that?

Looking forward to hearing from all of you!!
DaniWhite wrote: Hey Martina,

Thank you very much for the links. The NDEs were super interesting!
What puzzles me is that blind people describe things as if they were never blind.

I mean in the book from kenneth ring and in your links they said e.g. i could see gardens and a train while i was flying upwards.

We learned for a long time to connect our visual sense with the other senses like touch and hear. I cant imagine how someone who never saw somehing before can look down a city and say this is a train this is a garden. I cant imagine how this knowledge can just be there in the moment of mind sight.

Do you have any ideas to that?

Looking forward to hearing from all of you!!


Dani, I would say the knowledge that this is a garden, this is a train, etc, is always there, the blindness was just for this body in this lifetime. When out of the body, the soul/spirit expands beyond the limitation of the body and is able to access universal knowledge.
I agree that there is no stupid question.
Dani,
the fact that NDEers who were blind from birth can see and relate visual data during their experience is scientifically ridiculously important (in the order of discovering a new planet in our solar system).

Because their brain lacks the 'wiring' to process optical input into a meaningful representation of the world their observations can't be coming from the brain. Yet still the 'visual' data is ending up in their memories somehow...

Its maybe the strongest form of evidence for an existence of a soul (consciousness) apart from the brain.

I'm sure we will be hearing more on research from blind NDErs in the near future.
and the fact that people who are clinically dead, can see what is happening in the emergency or operating room is also a proof of consciousness not coming from the brain.
Hello Dani I would like to try to answer your 9 questions provided that you and everyone else please understand that my responses are strictly from my personal views and what I believed I experienced in the afterworld, with that disclaimer in hand I will try to answer you concerns the best I can :)

1) Free will versus predetermined destiny is always a sticky subject with me and there are biblical references that addresses this concern: in Matthew 26:34 Jesus predestined Peter by prophesizing He will deny Him 3 times. It would seem if Peter had free will He would find a way to avoid his denial when the critical time came for him to act, but as the time approached there were circumstances beyond his control that made him have fear, lose his focus and he ended up denying Jesus as prophesized. There is a simple physics equation that can predetermine your fate, it is based on you as an individual and the particles of matter that surround you. There is a finite limited number of choices that will happen to you based on your location on the grid of the universe and the interaction you have with the local particles of matter that are around you. The real question lies if you can change your destiny by slightly being in a different area to change the outcome of your destiny? It's kind of like you are driving blind in a car with no way to know where you are going, you have the free will to turn left or right, go straight, or make a complete U-turn, the only problem is that you do not know what is around you. What if I was like Jesus and could see that you were heading straight to a cliff but did not warn you to turn to avoid the cliff but only stated that you will drive off a cliff in a few minutes. You still had free will but since you could not see what I saw you ended up driving off the cliff as stated. Is this a predestine future event, or the inevitable outcome of a person driving a car they can't stop, can't see, that the land they are driving on is on top of a mountain that has cliffs all around it?

2 in regards to you second question I had 12 entities that approached me full of love and were happy to see me, I felt reassured that I was protected, safe, and that there was unconditional love, family and a wonderful home that was nearby me. These entities seemed genuine In their concern for me and I do not think they would lie to me that I was safe. The white light, or what I perceived to be a great royal king came up to me and smiled with great affection. He stated that it was not my time to pass through the light that I had to go back to Earth to finish my life and tried to reassure me not to worry about what I was doing in my life, since He will be watching over me. Those were very reassuring words so I am not worried about going to an unpleasant place once it is my time to cross over for good, I actually look forward to the event, but while I am here, I am going to live every ounce of the gift of life that was given to me.

3 Your 3rd question is difficult to answer but I will try, I truly believe that if you end up the same place I did upon your death you have no fear to worry about the transition of death to a spiritual existence. I truly believe that heaven/summerland is on the other side and you will be happy, loved and overwhelmed by how you belong to this new and wonderful place. Since I am a Witch I have experiences in the occult world I consider Hades, or the underworld that is separate from the kingdom of God or Heaven. I ask that you do not confuse this occult world with Hell, because I do not believe Hell exists at least for the moment until Judgment day arrives. What I will say about this other existence that is away from Heaven is that it seems to be a spiritual plane of existence that is very close to Earth and it seems to be billions of years old, but as long as it has been here it seems to only be a temporary space to hold the lost until judgment day arrives. I believe this is where the lost go, that are Earth bound spirits that feel comforted by the living that is nearby them. They are constantly watching us and are afraid of the light of Heaven because they do not understand what that place is so they avoid it completely. The only thing they know about the light is that if any lost spirit enters that area they never come back so they fear it as the 2nd death. I believe it is a second chance to go to Heaven so if I end up in this realm I guarantee I will pass to the light because I have faith it is the portal to Heaven and I am determined to seal my fate by finding out for myself if I am right or not if I end up in this area. Why is this occult world here? I can only speculate that some people are not ready to go to Heaven, need to see the living earth for awhile, or have to come to terms with the regretful choices they made when they were alive before they move on, but whatever the reason is, move on to the light if you can because that is the only place I know that has true happiness, peace and love for one to be in for eternity.

4 your fourth question is harder for me to answer than your third one haha! In my personal experiences it almost feels like this is my 5th or 6th time here which conflicts with my personal Christian views of only getting 1 chance in this life. In Wicca and Pagan religions reincarnation is a common belief and from a scientific perspective we do come from recycled materials on our Earth. We are mostly made up of water, have you ever considered that the water molecules of Moses, Socrates, King Tut, and the millions of people before us are now being used by our bodies? This is a scientific process that shows how recycled matter is used by the living from ancient life in the past, so if you shared some of the water that came from Socrates, do you have some connection to him from the past? I think so in a way, perhaps the water has some type of imprint that passes from one life force to another, I can only speculate?

5 Purpose of Life? Why God? from my understand and interaction from that supreme Divine Being, I got the impression that this perfect consciousness form was a creator by design. It wanted to create life, to give free will, to allow us to evolve beyond the angles capabilities and become as close to the creator as we can. Is there punishment for sin? Some religious doctrines say there is I certainly hope not, because we are flawed creatures that will make mistakes in our life regardless of our good intentions. The only comforting thing I can say is that I substitute mistake for sin in my life, and I believe that although I made many "mistakes" in my life I have complete faith my Divine will understand me when it is time to return and I have no fear or doubts that my life was lived in vain, why? Because I lived my life to the fullest, made mistakes, learned from my suffering and hopefully became a better person for living the experience and when it is time to come back home to my creator I go back home to the source of love that created me in the first place.

6 Sadly I do not know if Hell exists since I never had contact with such a place, remember I am a witch and I have traveled to Hades, the underworld, and the occult "Hidden world" by Astral travel, but this area is not Hell in my opinion. Christian Doctrine states without a doubt that Hell exists, but in my experiences I haven't seen it so I am so sorry but I do not know the answer? Hell is such a controversial subject and there are so many views of it, from being a 1 time punishment that causes the 2nd and final death of an individual, to a place of eternal suffering, or perhaps just a place that is separate from our Creator. The only comforting thing I can offer you, is to focus on your creator, of Heaven and not Hell, since that is my obsession compulsion in life. I need all the friends I can get, and if family from the other side, Angels, and Jesus as well can help me come back home to heaven I have no problems asking for their help. I have no doubt I am going to Heaven because I have faith that my creator, the helpers of my creator, my family, and the son of the creator will guide me back home where I belong, even though I made so many mistakes in this life I have faith to go back Home where I belong.

7 This question is very perplexing to me, especially from my observations of the spiritual realm I find myself in through Astral travel. In this plane of existence I see so many strange and diverse things there, from extremely intelligent beings, to primitive creatures that have existed for billions of years yet never had the capability to intellectually develop into a sentient creature. Why do we lose that insight if we were reborn or returned to a physical body from a spiritual one? The only solution I can come up with is that our Human life form is on the lowest level of primitive consciousness and capability to understand our surroundings. I feel very fortunate in seeing how our universe works from a physical and spiritual perspective. The concept of time is that it is not a verb but a noun, it is possible to walk through any time dimension like it is a place and not an event. This is an extra dimensional structure that is hard for our primitive minds to comprehend, also by process of entanglement I can briefly be in 2 places at the same time and travel anywhere within the physical universe where 2 particles of matter are entangled! In the normal plane of existence I am in 3d form and I am assigned a particular grid in the universe, but I am also inside the point of singularity where our universe first formed and in that existence my particles of matter are super string stretched out throughout the universe so I in reality I am everywhere within our universe and so are you, that is the connection we have as individuals and as superstring particles of matter that we are a part of that allows us to be everywhere throughout the universe! I know I talked about death throughout this question process and what I believe happens to us when we cross over to the other side but in true reality, no one dies, the time continuum is not a verb it is a noun and everything that existed is still here, but trapped in their own time universe. These conditions of reality are too much for a normal person to take so I can understand why we forget or ignore the complexities that are around us. I am sorry for being so complex, but life is a lot more complicated and uncertain as one could ever imagine! I will leave you with one example of how strange this life and true reality is. In one instance when I was 17 years old I had a deceased neighbor visit me from the Astral side plane of existence. In the physical world I was in that visit only lasted a fraction of a second, but in His Astral realm, we ended staring at each other for over a billion years. That encounter aged me a billion years over there but only a fraction of a second here. The experiences I faced in my life time is too much for a normal primitive human to comprehend let alone accept, but somehow I do by the faith and experiences I had in trying to understand the true realities that are around us.

8 Our universe is an incredibly large and incredible small area to be in, is there life out there? I don't know since I haven't experienced anything in my astral travel to suggest there are other life forms out there. I have had experiences with deceased animals as well as people so it seems to suggest that all life forms have the ability to transcend to Heaven and have the ability to share their molecules with future generations by the earth's recycling process, remember we share the same water molecule life with life forms from the past and when we are long gone, life forms will be using the water molecules that are in our body at the moment, that is the sense of connection I have with everyone on Earth and the cosmos that we are connected to the source, the point of singularity when our universe was compacted to a single point of space without dimensions, time, or space. because everything in the universe had the same point of origin, I believe that we are all part of the universe that has a connection to our physical and spiritual plane of existence in my opinion.

9 New souls created? I really don't know because of how I think about ourselves, the time continuum and the realities of the universe. Demi Moore was in a movie where she was going to give birth to the last soul on earth in a apoplectic movie it had an interesting concept. I am so sorry I don't know how to respond to your question, I guess the only comment I can make is that souls are like an energy source and like matter can not be created or destroyed, so in a way, I personally believe that all souls that are within the confines of our universe was here well before the beginning of time and will be here long after it ends.
Philips, I copied your interesting and organized answers and will analyze them carefully.

Thanks for being truthful and sincere
Thanks so much Dinah, your kind words really mean a lot to me and I hope what I wrote help you out on your magnificent journey of discovery! Take care and let me know if there is anything I can do for you! :)
Questioning is always how one starts. Its how we broaden our views.

You never lose yourself. Last year you had 365 days...each night you died and each morning you were reincarnated.....and each one of those you were yourself..never once losing your identity.

So it is. Nothing is ever lost. No memory, thought experience, event...ever.

As to why there are sad cases? From a surface view it is to teach us compation and humility...just by being a witness.

Detail view.... each vicitim or perpetrator has a reason...to experience something and thereby learn a lesson...or to teach one. And the teaching can be wider to more than just one. Could be the victim and perp are both 'actors'.
#6 I am an NDEr and this question tickles me pink. LOL... Hell and pearly gates are one man's opinion. It is not there. That guy should get a Nobel Prize for fiction.
Read about someone stating he did not choose to be born. False. You chose to be here like I did and so many others did. On the other side, it is energy. You are putting human thought to Spiritual energy it is like apples and oranges. The thought of being born is the prize and yes you get to witness future aspects of the life yet you do not understand your surroundings in which you are making these decisions. You are in total LOVE you are it and swimming in it. You are a part of the whole like you drank the Kool-aid and now you are a part of it. Know this sounds weird yet my mind is limited to being able to tell you of all the aspects of the experience.
I do not have answers, just further questions. I do appreciate your candidness and seeming honest approach to this material. I can relate to so much you express in your questioning, and connected through these non tangible ideas which humans seem to ask in many ways, by many people, over much time. Light and harmony to you and all who have posted in this thread.
8. Are their other creatures in space? I mean if this reincarnation thing is whats happening, can I be reborn as an „alien“ and have to live a completely different life? Are animals also reborn?

Hello Dani,

I've never had an NDE, but find them incredibly fascinating and am enjoying being a guest within this nice community of posters.

Anyhow, I loved question #8. I've no idea either about other creatures in space, but it reminded me of a conversation I had with a co-worker earlier this year. The hubby and I had just watched the movie Arrival, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Was telling my co-worker about it and what a good job was done with those aliens. He asked me...do you think there are other life forms in space? I told him probably. He said, GOOD. If not that's a terrible waste of a whole, lot of space out there! He was dead serious, but I found it a really, funny thing to say :)

As for being reborn and having to live a completely different life, you'd not even know you were living a different life. It would simply be your own life. Personally I'm still on the fence over reincarnation, but can not discount it as being a possibility.
"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far today I've finished 2 bags of M&Ms and a chocolate cake. I feel better already! ~ Dave Barry :)
Hey philipshadowfire

You are writing some interesting stuff. How does hades look like and which people or creatures are there? I mean you have the ability to use astral voyaging to go there. Do you meet other witches there who have the same ability? Are there also lost souls who didnt manage to go into the light?

What are the creatures there doing?performing rituals?

Is it a physical space also like a planet or in the earth core or is it just a virtual place that only exist in imagination?

There are two things that really puzzle me. You say we choose our lives and were asked beforehand. But who would like to be hitler and choose this life. Or who would choose a life were the person is tortured and rape? This does not make any sense to me. What i find most depressive is that innocent souls have to suffer hell on earth. I can not ficure out how a loving good can let that happen. God should be ashamed of himself/herself.

I mean when you are a very bad person like stalin you get reborn and in the next life you will cet torturey so that you can experience the bad stuff you did before? It does not make any sense to me. I an not think of a loving god who lets children suffer.

And free will is not an explanation for me. You can create humans with free will who do not want or can nor torture and rape children. So if you have any insights that can velp to answer my questions i would be very glad to receive your feedbacks.

Thank you
Hello, I've just discovered this forum. It seems like a cool place to discuss things that i can't really explain to my friends. I hope you don't mind me answering some of these questions so long after you answered them. I had a NDE and felt like i was given so much information. A lot of it i've forgotten, but tons of it i still remember. I'll answer your Q's now, from what i learned during the experience:

1. Some people say that they saw their future in an NDE. Does this mean that our lives are already predetermined etc.
Everything is predetermined to an extent, our actions in every moment are having a knock on effect in the "future", but we have the ability to change the future through our actions. When you are shown the future you are only shown one of endless possibilities. If you continue as you are, then that future you see will be the one you experience. But you can return to life and make what you want of it. It's not set in stone.

2. "Who / What" is the white light. Is it already God, or is it like a gatekeeper?
The white light is everything. It's what we are made of and where we came from (and what we are right now even though we can't see it). I always explain it like this - "real life" is like a web page. It looks all pretty and makes sense. The white light is the source code. like when you right click on a website and press "view code" then you are shown all of the code that's behind it all. So in short, the white light is an unfiltered view of everything in existence, including yourself. In a way it is "god" but not in a religious sense.

3. What if the first part of dying is fun and the second part is no fun? I mean is an NDE a glimpse of the whole death expirience or can it change an be totally different from what we now know?
You're taken right up to the very point of death. There is nothing further to be experienced whilst you are dead. The only choice is to go back to being alive. You can make the choice to stay if you want. You'll be in that happy place for as long as is necessary.

4. People see their loved onces who are already dead. On the other side many say, that we are reborn. How can that be?

Rebirth isn't instant, and the loss of "self" isn't instant either. I saw a deceased family friend and i asked that exact question. "If you're dead and made of energy then how come i can see you?". Her response (without talking) was that there is so much endless energy in the universe that it means you are not guaranteed to be reincarnated immediately - she said it could take millions of years. But that i shouldn't worry about that because i won't sense time while i'm there. And the complete dissolving of self takes time too. I had the impression that i wasn't really seeing a physical representation of her - but instead it was a recreation of her. If that makes sense.

5. What is the purpose of life? Ok, love and knowledge ok. But what is this whole construction good for? Why are we part of god, and on the other hand we have to suffer for our deeds e.g. for suicide? etc.

You gave the answer. To experience life and learn. Life is not about us as individuals, but about all life as a whole. the universe (or energy or whatever you call it) just wants to experience life through our eyes. ALL OF OUR EYES (all creatures). The good and the bad. And you ask what is the point of this? It's just to learn and see what happens. Back to the second part about suffering for our deeds - there is no suffering or punishment afterwards. I think you may be referring to religious texts and their mention of that stuff? I guess that's a separate topic.
In regards to suffering while we are alive and why does a "god" do this to us? Well, the simple answer is that it doesn't do anything bad to us. (or anything good either). The higher energy doesn't control our lives or actions. It just observes. Everything that happens is as a result of our actions (Even modern genetic illnesses are a result of our selections when breeding throughout our history - they did not always exist). It makes more sense when you stop thinking of humans as individuals - but rather a collective of everything that has happened up to this point. I know its hard to accept but its true.

6. Does the devil and hell exists? Are people send to hell for eternity or after suffering long enough, they can go to heaven
I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think heaven exists - so in that sense i guess i'll say that i don't believe hell exists. What i saw was something totally different to both of those concepts.

7. When people say, when they are dead they just ask a question and get an answer imediately. So when the soul life works so well with gaining knowledge, why do we forget everything when we come to earth and have so weak tools, like getting knowledge, remember things, etc. when we come from a higher more sophisticated place?

Because as humans we are individuals in individual bodies. There is only so much our brains can process. When we are in the higher source we are a combined and connected "one". We are using an infinite amount of power and capability (not using a brain, but just energy). That's why we can process more and get answers immediately. So, why would they not create humans with that ability? well there's two answers - first of all they didn't create humans. we evolved. And second - why would they create something the exact same as them? There would be nothing to learn from viewing that.

8. Are their other creatures in space? I mean if this reincarnation thing is whats happening, can I be reborn as an „alien“ and have to live a completely different life? Are animals also reborn?

From what i learned, the answer is 100% yes there is life in other places. I saw so many other places. In fact i had the feeling that there was pretty much zero chance i would ever return to earth if i was to be reborn. And i also felt lucky that i had experienced earth. Because some of the other places with life were much less developed - just bacteria and insect like animals. Others were wilderness, but with different sense of scale (trees were tiny, grass was huge, the air felt thick etc.). None of the places i saw had human-like creatures on.
Do animals get reborn? Yes, everything gets reborn. We are all no different. Who knows what you'll become or have been before.

9. Are new souls created? I mean, when a person is born the person needs a soul. Is it a recycled soul that already lived? I mean the population is exploding. Can we cope with already exisiting souls or are new souls created?
There isn't really a soul in a individual sense. We are all one thing. And that one thing is vast and endless. So much greater than real existence (i realise how crazy that sounds). It is not possible for their to ever be more life than the energy can handle.
As for a soul i will explain it like this - the energy is like an endless pool of water. When it's time for something to be born somewhere, then a bit of that is scooped out and distributed in that life form. It only turns into a "soul" or person as it and learns experiences through their eyes. When that person dies the energy returns and is poured back into the metaphorical "pool" and slowly dilutes until the sense of self is gone again.
Thanks. I enjoyed reading that. :)
I have not had an NDE however, I have had many other experiences: visions, dreams, past life experiences, possible parallel universe experiences, remote viewing and 'in between life' experiences. Did I get it right? Who knows ---- that is why I seek additional experiences.

I would like to answer some of your questions.

---- About seeing 'spirits' that may have already 'reincarnated'. In the 'between life' this is very possible as the soul can and will present itself at 'anytime' and 'anywhere' as a 'past person' if it is important to do so while presenting itself in the physical. Such as greeting new returnees to make them feel 'comfortable'.

----Neither heaven, hell or the devil exist. The 'in between life' exists.

----Definitely, there are alien life forms throughout the universe. God is a 'creator' as are we! I got most of this answer from 'dreams' and remote viewing.

-----Hard to understand that 'we' selected our lives ------ knowing the potential 'good, bad and ugly'. It was for 'experiences' ---- good, bad and ugly! I know it is hard to understand that in the 'physical', but we must have understood this in the 'spiritual' to chose what we have chosen. Sometimes, it is maybe more for 'other members of our soul group' to progress than us but we definitely do make progress each incarnation as far as I understand.

Good luck!

I believe you can get many of these answers for yourself if you continue to 'seek truth' and are not afraid of 'experiences'.

.
Welcome AaronM! :)
What is a Shih Tzu? "A dash of Lion, several teaspoons of Rabbit, a couple ounces of old Chinese men, a bit of Beggar,
a tablespoon of Monkey, one part Baby Seal, and a dash of Teddy Bear."
~ James E. Mumford

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May I ask additional questions (besides this one) of this thread?
Welcome Aaron M.! ------ I am very impressed how much 'truth' you obtained from just one experience. Congratulations!

It took me 'many' experiences, in a number of different areas to get most of the same information or very close to what you got.

Welcome also, Rob4Hope. I am not a moderator and new also, but I say go for it if you have a question. Seems to me, that there are a number of 'experiencers' available here that will try to answer any question you may have.
Rob4Hope wrote: May I ask additional questions (besides this one) of this thread?


Rob what sort of questions would you like to ask? I think the mods here are pretty flexible. Even if you were to unintentionally post in the wrong forum the worst that would likely happen is your post would be relocated to the correct place. Hope that is helpful :)
What is a Shih Tzu? "A dash of Lion, several teaspoons of Rabbit, a couple ounces of old Chinese men, a bit of Beggar,
a tablespoon of Monkey, one part Baby Seal, and a dash of Teddy Bear."
~ James E. Mumford

Image
Rob, go right ahead. The forum isn't so busy that posting here would be a problem. Feel free to start your own thread too if you'd rather. Anything is ok. I only get angry if I feel people here are being manipulated or their well-being threatened. Something gives me the feeling that you care too much for others to fit that bill :-)
[quote="Martina"]Hi Dani, this one

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experien ... 7s_nde.htm

Soon as I saw the comment about this posting, I knew I'd read it before...and yes it is facinating. One thing in there was about travel using gravity:

"He said, 'We are using a gravity generator to get almost unlimited speed!"

That is so amazing because there are scientist today studying this same possibility. They're saying gravity is not a pull, but more of a push and holds matter together allowing it to exist. I'm no scientist, but that theory is quite interesting to me.
"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far today I've finished 2 bags of M&Ms and a chocolate cake. I feel better already! ~ Dave Barry :)
Looks like several folks have mentioned "go ahead and post".

I'm new to NDEs, not the topic, but new in that I am looking for a teather back to "faith"...and by that I mean faith in a higher power, faith in benevolence, etc. Its a long story,...one I may share in a later post, and NOT one I want to engage in at this point. So please hold off there.

But with regards to NDEs---those may help me with several things I want to resolve, but I have to plug up holes of doubt. I have some perhaps strange questions, but ones that matter to me.

1. I've read that those who have passed on are able to "pass through" solid objects, sometimes even those who are embodied. I remember George Ritchie's experience as it was the first I read, and he mentioned he actually passed through another person. So, that is fine and causes no problems. Its relevant to what I am going to ask below.

2. I recall seeing pictures of astronauts in the space station. Some are upright in relationship to the camera angle, and some are upside down or sideways. Without gravity, there is no proper orientation, and so whatever way a body is facing in that situation is correct. Now, in NDE experiences, i have never read of someone being upside down or slanted: they are either laying down, or they are right-side-up with their surroundings. That implies to me their soul is either a) reactive to gravity, and are subsequently oriented accordingly; b) they are simply unconsciously responding to the environment around them which also seems to be related to gravity.

3. If they are relating to gravity and they are able to "pass through" solid objects, why are these people then remaining parallel so to speak with regards to the earth? Why are they not falling through the floor and through the earth? Why can they "walk" on the ground and not fall through, and yet walk "through" a door?

4. In environments where there is no "mortality" (when in completely spiritual realms), why are these individuals and environments--assuming gravity doesn't exist there in the same way--why are they oriented right-side-up with regards to others and things there?

OK. I'm not in any way trying to be obtuse with these questions....but these are questions I've had for a long time. I am willing to listen to answers and honestly consider. I want specifically to hear from any NDEs where perhaps something along these lines has been discussed,...or share a link where this was discussed. I'm willing to do some research and learn.

These physical things, this "pass through" idea, creates mental barriers of credibility that prevent me from moving forward. Because of personal experiences and being lied to extensively in my past, I am unable to simply have "faith" or take things at face value while consistently shelving questions.

A wise person I trust told me: "Truth stands on its own. If its true, there is no fear to ask the 'hard questions' of it."

I believe this. More questions to follow, but any ideas on these?
Rob4hope asked: 3. If they are relating to gravity and they are able to "pass through" solid objects, why are these people then remaining parallel so to speak with regards to the earth? Why are they not falling through the floor and through the earth? Why can they "walk" on the ground and not fall through, and yet walk "through" a door?

4. In environments where there is no "mortality" (when in completely spiritual realms), why are these individuals and environments--assuming gravity doesn't exist there in the same way--why are they oriented right-side-up with regards to others and things there?
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I have never had a NDE but have had an OBE. Therefore, I will relate what I 'felt' in an OBE. Basically, I felt 'gravity neutral'.

After I came out of my body, I wanted to 'float to the top of the roof' through the 2nd floor of my house. I did feel like I floated there. Once there I didn't feel any 'gravity' or need to hold on to anything either, so I felt 'not subject to gravity'.

From there I looked up at the stars and wanted to go on to the after life. I never felt any 'motion' to get there. I was just there. I was told I needed to talk to someone. I again was just in front of a door which I entered and walked into a room where a 'spirit guide' (I believe) sat. I just was immediately, without feeling any movement, in front of him and he started to ask me questions. I never felt subject to gravity or feared floating away either.

At the end I never felt any sensation of motion but was just 'back in my body'. I never passed through any other person or 'spirit'.

Hopefully, an NDE person will give you their feelings.
Dreamer wrote: Rob4hope asked: 3. If they are relating to gravity and they are able to "pass through" solid objects, why are these people then remaining parallel so to speak with regards to the earth? Why are they not falling through the floor and through the earth? Why can they "walk" on the ground and not fall through, and yet walk "through" a door?

4. In environments where there is no "mortality" (when in completely spiritual realms), why are these individuals and environments--assuming gravity doesn't exist there in the same way--why are they oriented right-side-up with regards to others and things there?
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I have never had a NDE but have had an OBE. Therefore, I will relate what I 'felt' in an OBE. Basically, I felt 'gravity neutral'.

After I came out of my body, I wanted to 'float to the top of the roof' through the 2nd floor of my house. I did feel like I floated there. Once there I didn't feel any 'gravity' or need to hold on to anything either, so I felt 'not subject to gravity'.

From there I looked up at the stars and wanted to go on to the after life. I never felt any 'motion' to get there. I was just there. I was told I needed to talk to someone. I again was just in front of a door which I entered and walked into a room where a 'spirit guide' (I believe) sat. I just was immediately, without feeling any movement, in front of him and he started to ask me questions. I never felt subject to gravity or feared floating away either.

At the end I never felt any sensation of motion but was just 'back in my body'. I never passed through any other person or 'spirit'.

Hopefully, an NDE person will give you their feelings.


Dreamer...nothing wrong with your post. I'm listening, and it piques other questions that are not bad ones to have at all. Your post makes me think that "body orientation" may not apply at all, because maybe we don't have a body so to speak with either OBE or NDEs. A "soul"...whatever that is, something else to consider.

Anyway,...your post was first and is not misplaced. Thank you.
Rob4Hope--hoping for a faith that works!
Rob4Hope wrote: 3. If they are relating to gravity and they are able to "pass through" solid objects, why are these people then remaining parallel so to speak with regards to the earth? Why are they not falling through the floor and through the earth? Why can they "walk" on the ground and not fall through, and yet walk "through" a door?

4. In environments where there is no "mortality" (when in completely spiritual realms), why are these individuals and environments--assuming gravity doesn't exist there in the same way--why are they oriented right-side-up with regards to others and things there?


Interesting questions, Rob. NDE literature is filled with stories in which the experiencer is able to see things from all points of view at once. This is something you might have experienced in dreams, but, when asked, NDErs tend to say their experience is more real than everyday life experiences.

I have never had a near death experience, but can provide examples from out of body experiences I have when my physical body is asleep and my mind is a wake. I started training to have OBEs in my late 20s and, interestingly, one of the things I would do, in those early days, the moment my consciousness was released from the physical body, was trying to put my hand and arm 'through' the mattress or 'through' a leg, or 'through' a wall. Then I started practicing with walking through walls. In my very first experiences, when I had little control over what happened, and was basically an observer, I happened to feel like a balloon floating up to the ceiling, or down towards my bedroom floor, but never 'fell' through the floor. Against my will, I happened to be shot like a rocket through the 6-floor building I lived in, through the roof and into the sky: my only fear was that of hurting myself, but I didn't. With practice, I learnt that I was not only using a different vehicle, which was not restricted by gravity, space or time, but could actually master this vehicle (which I called 'astral body'). So it was natural for me to explore the astral version of my house as my physical body would do, i.e as if walking. Then it once happened that no walls existed in my flat, and I could see the whole place at once. As my own preconceptions dissolved, I realised I could fly, go and see my relatives who lived far away and visit other dimensions. The most fascinating experiences came when I started wanting to visit deceased loved ones. I still liked to walk through portals to reach them, but that was just to help me focus on my goal and get 'there' more efficiently. In my experience, they usually adjust to my notion of gravity, but they do not look old or sick.

To answer your question n. 3 and 4, based on my own experiences, there at least two versions of 'me' in such cases: one lying in bed asleep and one exploring life beyond physical restrictions, though it did take some practice to control the astral vehicle so that it would 'operate' as I preferred.

Here is a link from Kevin Williams' website about NDEs and Earth and here is the Site Map where you can pick and choose accounts based on a number of categories.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Thank you Giulia.

I am open, considering, and learning. I am trying to approach this whole thing with a VERY open mind, cutting myself some slack because I know (because I'm human) I certainly have pre-conceived notions I am not aware of at all, and those affect me whether I want them to or not.

I like to think of myself as a blind person who needs to rapidly learn about an unfamiliar room. I have few options other than bumping around in the furniture before I can get a feel for how things are laid out. Bruises happen, but in this case its involved in learning, even though they hurt a little.

So it is with me...unless I bump around a little, I will never make any progress at all. And I am committed to making progress...
Rob4Hope--hoping for a faith that works!
Rob stated: Your post makes me think that "body orientation" may not apply at all, because maybe we don't have a body so to speak with either OBE or NDEs. A "soul"...whatever that is, something else to consider.
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I read one book where it stated that you can do an OBE with an astral body or with your consciousness only. Based on what I saw and felt, I tend to think I did not have a astral body but just consciousness only. However, when I got to the 'after life area' people immediately recognized me or at least my presence and started asking me questions. I never saw myself in a mirror or anything so I have no idea how I appeared during that experience.

That was my only 'possible OBE' so people who have had multiple OBEs should have much better/more reliable information than me. It took me over 20 attempts before I got that experience. I was a little upset that I didn't get to see very much of the after life at that time. Subsequently, I did get more of a 'tour', but in a dream state not an OBE.
@Dreamer

5. What is the purpose of life? Ok, love and knowledge ok. But what is this whole construction good for? Why are we part of god, and on the other hand we have to suffer for our deeds e.g. for suicide? We have to learn from our life on earth. Why? What does god need us for? Does he look at his / her own creation by creating us and giving us consciousness and eyes to see the creation which means herself? Ok, fine with that. But why this good deeds / sin stuff and this massive amount of suffering in the world. What function do we have for god? I mean, some people say, god is super wise and super powerful. Why does she / he use this awful construction of us people live and suffer for creating a higher soul? This does not seem very kind to me as a suffering human being.

Dreamer let me take a shot at this one. Please take it for what it's worth, I understand your question for what it is with my NDE and how I perceive our reality from experiencing my own personal NDE. I am using the bible as my base level of understanding, and coming from the part where Lucifer (The Bright Morning Star) Decided that he would be as high as God and 1/3 of the celestial bodies (angels) of heaven began to follow him. Lets assume that we will allow this as uncontested and accurate, In 1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! there is another scripture that talks of man being made in much fear and trembling... (I'm not preaching just trying to set the stage)

Ok, so what I have come to understand and believe is this, after the fall of the angels in heaven they were awaiting for God's judgement. God's limitation is his fairness and justness. There had never before that moment in existence been a choice to follow God or anther choice, so God in his fairness decided that he would not be the one to judge the fallen angels. God came down and recreated a 3 dimensional realm of existence, what is tangible to us on earth is none-tangible to the spiritual realm and vice-versa. God then created man in his image but with the dust of this tangible existence, he then connected this 3 dimensional realm to the spiritual realm by breathing breath into man. Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. this being translated actually means something along the line of 'God violently gave up a part of his life force and it became a part of his existence."

God created man to choose, he made this 3 dimensional realm with a choice to either choose God or not God. Atoms are the basic elements to create all life; and non-nuclear atoms have equal amounts of positive and negatively charged protons and electrons. We live in a plane of existence in which we get to choose to live a positive or negative existence. The more we choose the positive the more positive our existence becomes, the more we choose the negative the more we attract negative into our experience.

We are here on earth to choose between good and bad, choose between God and the Devil, choose between good and evil, choose to help or hurt those that are currently experiencing life at this time with us. after our experience is over and this earth experiment has come to a conclusion mankind will gravitate towards who we chose to follow. Man will then tell the angels that chose to no longer follow God that they must once and for all fallow the devil and be with him for eternity.

We are here to find meaning, and to give positively or negatively into the human experiment. The choice belongs to each individual. If we try and make the world a better place we will have lived a fulfilled existence. The beautiful thins is we get to choose the level of contribution we get to commit to this world. Your contribution could be to raise a family into a positive earth experience or our contribution can be that of Mother Theresa and we touch mankind.
Time:
It's actually harder to explain it as I understand it than I thought, but I hope this makes some kind of sense. I think those that saw their futures during NDE, isn't because life is predetermined, because the world can't be fair without free will; however time only exist on this plane of existence. In the Greek there is Chronomos/Chronological and Kyros/ perceived time. We write calendars and know the days of the week by the first and the second is why we say "Time flies when your having fun." Time is like gravity in that we couldn't imagine not having gravity until man went into space and gravity no longer was a law. Time is the same. When I came back from my NDE I found myself having a difficult time making appointments and keeping up with dates and time. Walking out of time, I had to retrain myself to fall under the order of the law of time.

God made this universe with laws that control every aspect of 3 dimensional existence. There are many spiritual laws such as the law of gravity, the law of cause and effect, the law of gratitude, the law of compensation, etc. that govern the world we live in. understanding these laws allow us to live whatever existence we choose.

This may sound like just mad ramblings, but I hope it helps...
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