Mission Statment

click me to Open or Close
"This is a non-profit, non-denominational and apolitical online discussion site, designed to support research and study of consciousness experiences, such as near death experiences and other spiritually transformative experiences, support experiencers and spread the message of love, unity and peace around the world. We do not allow proselytizing or bullying (please refer to our Joining Rules). We welcome and encourage people of all backgrounds, nationalities, countries and/or religions to bring up any topic they feel fit for this place and to read and participate in the conversations held here, in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere."
If your not sure where to post it, Then Stick it in here and maybe we will move it somewhere

And maybe we won't either
15 posts Page 1 of 1
I know Jesus promotes forgiving.
I promote forgiving because Jesus promotes it and I want to do the best I can with His Love/Forgive principles.

My question is, what about the people who simply don't care if they're forgiven or not? They feel as if they don't need forgiveness, or that they did nothing wrong in the first place? What are we supposed to make of that? What about the people that deliberately hurt others over and over and over again? :\ With no remorse, no care, no change in behavior...?
If they don't care or seek forgiveness in the first place, or even flat out don't want it, what are we supposed to do? Still forgive them? So that they can keep treating people the way they have been? Or are we supposed to confront them and let them know, "Hey, this isn't right."? I am not good with confronting, although all I have mentioned is, "What you're doing is hurting me." But if they don't care at all, then do I really need to be focused on forgiving them? They don't care, they don't think about their actions, they have no need or want of my forgiveness, so should I just drop it and ignore the whole situations?

I can understand if they're truly remorseful for what they've done, and if they ask for forgiveness, or if they feel too ashamed to ask for it. But when they don't care at all... :\ It seems like it's no longer required of me to keep trying to forgive that person.

Any insights on this would be greatly appreciated. : )



(EDIT: Changed the word "condone" to "promote"... seemed to be a better word choice.)
I know at times in my life I have forgiven someone in my own mind, so I could move on and not have the person occupying my thoughts or mind.
I figured they were ignorant, but I did not want to have them affect my life in a negative way.
Then, I distanced myself from them as to not be hurt again. Or, I ignore their comments, as I think they must be very insecure with themselves.
Thank you ano. : )

I have forgiven them in my heart and mind so many times, and I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they weren't hurting me intentionally. Perhaps they weren't aware of what they were doing. But... I was just fooling myself in order to help me forgive them easier. They are definitely hurting me on purpose. I think it is their way of saying they don't care about me, and deliberately pushing me away to gain that distance. My forgiveness is unwanted and unneeded.
So the kindest thing I can do in this scenario is indeed to just walk away, instead of to keep forgiving them since it has become quite apparent that it is not what they want. And just have to try not to let it affect me negatively.



(And then I wonder at others who have gone through so much more significant and devastating trials than I have, and still find it in their heart to forgive their tormentors, and I realize that I have such a long way to go on this journey. :| )
Prism, I'm with ANo1 here. Forgiving is something that works both ways. Forgiving someone benefits the forgiver because they can let go of the past and move on to a future that is just a little bit lighter. Like throwing off excess baggage or leaving it at home. It can benefit the forgiven provided they acknowledge the forgiveness, if they don't, it neither benefits nor harms them.
What forgiveness is not however, is giving up or giving in. The forgiver (and often society as a whole) should take positive steps to prevent future harm coming to them. So forgiving someone doesn't mean you need to trust them. Those are very separate issues.

I once lent a buddy $25, but he just laughed in my face when I finally asked for it back. I was p1ss3d for a while but forgave him. I'm no longer angry and I hardly ever think of him, so I have let go. But there's no way I'm lending him any money again. If he were to really need it I'd just give it to him, expecting nothing in return. So the relationship I have has altered as a consequence of his actions, but I don't harbor anger or resentment, nor do I wish to 'exact vengeance' or anything like that. It wouldn't make me happy to see him suffer, it would make me sad. That's forgiveness to me. You see, I'm the primary beneficiary of my own forgiveness because it drains negativity from me which then cannot build up to hatred. He probably just thinks I'm weak for not trying to steal it back from him.

In my pastoral work I have come across some people in a very pitiful state. The worst were people who just couldn't forgive or didn't want to. These people remained stuck in the past, which prevented them from moving on. In essence these people were dead even if they were still breathing. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies, it has to be a living hell they had condemned themselves to by harbouring anger and hate instead of forgiving and learning to move on. True, these people are often victims, and not to blame for the evil that befell them, but they chose to remain victims and that is just so incredibly sad. As far as I'm concerned only forgiveness has the power to turn a victim into a victor.
I have also come across many more people who had lost everything; I mean children, sometimes multiple partners, fortunes, suffered rape and decades of mental and physical abuse. People who went on to become Awesome beacons of fortitude like lighthouses in a raging storm. Because they escaped, forgave and let go. I have the deepest respect for these people and I wish the other group would see the error of their ways.

In short I believe forgiveness is the only way, it's not optional if you want to live and thrive. But it doesn't mean you have to be friends with whoever hurt you in the first place. It also doesn't mean they need a get out of jail free card. Jesus says we need to love our neighbour as yourself, which means we need to take care of ourselves or we won't be able to take care of our neighbour at all.
Someone I know has been dealing with some like you have explained and from there we were able to put a ( NAME ) to the disorder that that person seems to have. We are not qualified to diagnose this person but once we got reading about the disorder we were able to see all the symptoms in the person which gave us the interest to learn more about what we were dealing with.

I am in no way saying ( Your Person ) has this same disorder as I am only going by the very brief description you have given us, BUT it is one of the MAJOR symptoms of the disorder.

Following is a link to a Facebook Group that you will have ask permission to join and then once they allow you to join it will give you the ability to read many posts from ( Many ) different people describing the same symptom that you have described along with many other symptoms.

If you see a similarity in the symptoms that other people and yourself are dealing with then this will give the first stepping stone to a very long road of recovery.

We had never even heard of this disorder until it was stumbled across by accident and once we compared the symptom to the way the person acted , it opened up a door for us to understand how someone could be this way.

This May Help Explain Why Some People are like what you have Explained

If you find this helpful I have links to a lot of other stuff which will help you to educate yourself regarding this .

I hope you find this useful

Image
Image




Why Am I Here




One Look Dictionary
prismreverie wrote: Thank you ano. : )

I have forgiven them in my heart and mind so many times, and I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they weren't hurting me intentionally. Perhaps they weren't aware of what they were doing. But... I was just fooling myself in order to help me forgive them easier. They are definitely hurting me on purpose. I think it is their way of saying they don't care about me, and deliberately pushing me away to gain that distance. My forgiveness is unwanted and unneeded.
So the kindest thing I can do in this scenario is indeed to just walk away, instead of to keep forgiving them since it has become quite apparent that it is not what they want. And just have to try not to let it affect me negatively.


(And then I wonder at others who have gone through so much more significant and devastating trials than I have, and still find it in their heart to forgive their tormentors, and I realize that I have such a long way to go on this journey. :| )


Hi prismreverie, whether you forgive someone or not should not hinge on whether they accept your forgiveness. Your forgiveness comes from your heart and is unconditional. It is most of all about you, and second only about the other person. If they decide to do the same wrongful acts again and again it is their choice, and their problem, and they will be lost because of it. It has nothing to do with you. I don't think your forgiveness, if it is from your heart, is unwanted and unneeded - forgiveness is always needed. But the other person might not be in that state yet where they can recognize and feel it, and that is their choice and freedom too. But that does not mean you should stop forgiving people, because then you would limit the expression of your own heart.

Having said that, forgiving someone for hurting you does not mean to condone or excuse and allow their wrongful acts again and again. Saying no to what hurts you is just as important in your own (and the other person's) development. So, it is both - forgive them but take a step back and don't allow their negative energy to infiltrate your heart and life. Then only you find peace with the situation.
Hi everyone : )

Thank you all so much for your replies. It helps a lot to hear all these perspectives.
I am quite surprised at myself that I said this:
"So the kindest thing I can do in this scenario is indeed to just walk away, instead of to keep forgiving them"
and I realize it did not come out the way I intended.

I like to think I am a pretty forgiving person, and while I stated "instead of to keep forgiving them", what I meant to say is that I would still forgive them in my heart, but I would not forget all of things that they have done to me, and I would not take every single slight as an opportunity to forgive. I would just see the situation and actions as a whole, and forgive them for all of their actions, past/present/future, but I would try not to put myself in a position to keep getting hurt. So I would stay away from them, even though I forgive them, because sometimes my heart just can't take it. And I need to be kind to myself as well, and realize that no one should go through these hurtful actions.

My mentality before was to try and forgive them to where I would wipe the slate clean and pretend that they didn't hurt me at all, and go on like everything was normal. But there's only so much a person can take before they realize that it's an endless cycle and isn't affecting the other person at all (or so it seems... maybe just to their amusement... to see how gullible I am? :|) So even though I have mentioned to them that they hurt me, I don't think they fully realize, or care, what it really is doing to me inside. And this goes for anyone who's been in these types of situations.
My idea of complete forgiveness, is to completely start over, no matter what they've done. But like what has been mentioned, how is that healthy that the perpetrator can just continue with their actions without even feeling sorry or remorse? I am not one to condemn, so I will still find it in my heart to forgive, but I will be more cautious (distant) with my dealings with them.

Thank you everyone again for your insights. : ) I appreciate it very much.


Garry,
I do not have a facebook account (I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't? :P) and cannot access the link you provided. It just leads me back to the nderf site. Would you mind mentioning what this disorder is?
Thanks in advance. : )
This is not an easy topic, Prism, as I have difficulties with any form of forgiveness that borders on condoning cruel or evil practices.

In my opinion the idea of turning the other cheek and offering oneself as a martyr might have been skilfully introduced with their current meaning to offer a justification for violence, a regular aspect of fundamentalist religions, which are in fact usually centred on the golden rule (i.e.: love) and should have nothing to do with violence or crusading against infidels.

Unfortunately, however, as Garry pointed out, there are disorders nowadays, such as those caused by arteriosclerosis, to name a very common one, or disrespectful behaviours caused even only by stress, that call for constant exercise of compassion and understanding, which I have found are essential in order to flood this world with peace and harmony.

My personal advice is not to allow people to repeatedly hurt you, or they will think it is OK, but at the same time look at them with compassion, as they would never act that way if they could see the full impact of their behaviour.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
DennisMe wrote: Jesus says we need to love our neighbor as yourself, which means we need to take care of ourselves or we won't be able to take care of our neighbor at all.


And how many times have I gotten so mad at myself due to some unintended or deemed unsatisfactory outcome as a result of my own behavior, decision or action ?

Angry at MYSELF ! (Gotta think about that for a bit.)

Most often, it seems, forgiveness came only after taking corrective action or making right whatever was felt to be wrong.
Many mnay years ago when i was scared shitlesss by the competitive nature of this world.....far too sensive a little person!.... i had a dream one night. I was walking in a dimly lit tunnel bent in half with a load on my back. I walked and walked. I came to a door and opened the door. On the threshold as i opened and prepared to leave was another woman...bent half carrying her own bundle.

I said to her...dont be afraid, there is no one here just you. There is nothing to fear.

When i woke up i knew my offworld supportive team of wonderful people that have done so much to help me....sent me a message to help me.

There is no one here but us and we live in an interesting world governed by creative energy that we use to compose our lives. The old Zen questions (if a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear, does sit make a sound etc) are there to guide us to the answer that in fact and it is a fact now that science is uncovering so many new discoveries to do with quantum physics.... our world only exists for this moment and only for that we place our attention on moment by moment.

We create exactly what we want. We bring into our lives exactly who we want...pre organised. I call it the universal noticebaord! One notice could say ' wanted: someone to knife me in the back to teach me xxxx'

And we get together off world and set up our lesson in love to hapen here...someone helping us in love to help teach us some skill, some lesson..something...we called for. All in love.

That is why we are taught by all spiritual teachers that everything is right with God and all is right under the sun.

It isnt for us to judge others lessons even if they involve high human pain or misery. They are learning something...either as a perpetrator or victim or both. As are we ...giving and receiving....as witnesses.

That is why we are taught that the old question of 'stay or go' resolves itself when we resolve our attitide within ourselves. Because we are the creators...we dissolve or resolve with our own focus. We start with #1... y'know...charity begins at home...love yourself and suddenly you love everyone?

Ghandi's saying has stayed with me since i first heard it...i have travelled so far and all i have done is come home. He meant it differently i think but i personalised the meaning to my own resonance and use because i used to search for answers why my life was so ??? .... and it rang home to me that i need to look at home not outside....to. Y attotides, beliefs and thoughts.

We are not products of our past, just products of our current thoughts, beliefs and ideas.

And there is nithing to fear..we are here alone ...with people supporting and helping.

And to be sure we dont actually know if they even 'exist' ...materially. How the devil would you know? Its all too weird with quantum psysics!
I cant edit the above post... cant say i like this forum where rhey want to trap your input!....so here is what i would have edited to add...

When you have experienced peace, eternity, love... you suddenly realise that where love exists....or peace...under eternity...nothing else is needed.
No edit...sigh... the amswe is in the world i think...

For....give

For when you give...you get...so stop pushing button..peace results.

There is selfdestruct button in every Startek etc movie.... dont press the button....
autumn wrote: There is selfdestruct button in every Startek etc movie.... dont press the button....


This is not a movie, Autumn. It you feel that way, I recommend you see a professional. We cannot provide medical advice.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia wrote:
autumn wrote: There is selfdestruct button in every Startek etc movie.... dont press the button....


This is not a movie, Autumn. It you feel that way, I recommend you see a professional. We cannot provide medical advice.


I was in a hurry last night, Autumn, as we are having scheduled black-outs affecting our Internet connection and (as you can see) I am not editing my post, but simply adding to it.

Can you please introduce yourself and tell us why you are encouraging people not to resort to self-destructive behaviours?

You can draft your post on a separate editor, leave it there until you are happy with it, and then log in and post it. That will save you having to add to it.

However, once again, if you are going through a spiritual struggle of any sort, we are not qualified to offer professional advice, as per the Joining Rules you accepted to comply with when you joined.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
ano1 wrote: Then, I distanced myself from them as to not be hurt again.


I used to live by that. But this year I'm struggling with a situation where I feel repeatedly hurt by several people close to me but distancing myself is basically impossible as it would have a severely negative effect on other innocents involved in the situation. So I feel I'm stuck in a situation where I have to repeatedly defend myself with noone on my side. :cry: It's a hard challenge and the only reason I can think of why I might be in this situation is to learn to forgive - and I'm sad to say that I feel far from being able to do that right now.

At times the pain inside is great, comparable to having your wisdom teeth pulled without anesthetic ...
15 posts Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron