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Flight / Vived Imagery / Warmth
Life Review / Unbounded Love
Timelessness / Unusual Knowledge
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Hi:)
I have a question about soul evolution and development. Why does the soul "evolve?" If we are part of God, shouldn't we know everything there is to know? I think we are on Earth to experience things, but I don't really understand the concept of soul evolution. Is soul evolution something we desire as souls or something God makes us do?
Thanks!!!!!
and another thing: Let's say our soul does not fulfill a life "goal." Does it incarnate until it does? E.g a person wanted to open a center for spiritual learning. But they got so muddled up that they did not do it. Would they incarnate as long as it takes to achieve this? Or change the mission?
Great question(s).

Why Im becoming shy about attempting to deal with such questions with others is because of my perceived complexity of the "creation."

My belief is that there are different levels, domains and ranks and that in the wider picture, things are much more fluid.

Yes, there are the laws of physics, but they can be suspended (typically temporarily) from power deriving from higher dimensions.
(You will encounter testimonies here in the NDERF database in which people will swear on a stack of bibles, that the car they were in passed completely through an incoming car in what had, just had to be a massive head on crash - inevitably had to be fatal given the speeds involved.)

If one is of great spiritual rank (eg, Jesus), then one can say such things as (Jesus speaking about his life), "No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again."

(In addition, it is more complicated in that there seems to be artificial like things which can be created from an individuals own consciousness which seem to be capable of manifesting a life of their own. Tulpas, egregores and things like third man factors(?). These along with other higher dimensional entities existing in a higher dimensionality (all not necessarily compatible with each other), some of which are capable of interacting with physical matter.

Look at what Linda Howe concluded in her "angelic intervention" testimony (Serious Cafe): "And since then, I have never doubted that there is consciousness in the unseen, that seems to know what's coming next before our human minds do. And when there is mortal danger, it can interact with our matter world, can run interference that keeps us alive. And for me, that is angelic intervention and what the spirit and celebration of Christmas is all about for me. And really, it really really truly happened."

(Few people have studied paranormal as Linda Howe has. She has a resume a mile long.)

So for me personally, I am becoming to accept existence of wider dimensionality. (After all not only do we see testimonies of such ideas in NDE reports, but it also seems, at least to me, to be one of the only ways to resolve what are otherwise seeming contradictions when looking "across-the-board" at all these paranormal things. (This card just seemingly keeps turning up.)

So I conclude that some things may be cast in concrete (ie, unchangeable), but many things are not and life purposes and missions can be modified or deflected, etc, etc., etc.

There just is a certain amount of fluidity.

But, at least for me, there is now even greater optimism toward trying to evolve in understanding and capability, to tune into the help that is available ......... to ride this great miraculous wave of evolutionary conscience existence.
creatureoflight wrote: and another thing: Let's say our soul does not fulfill a life "goal." Does it incarnate until it does? E.g a person wanted to open a center for spiritual learning. But they got so muddled up that they did not do it. Would they incarnate as long as it takes to achieve this? Or change the mission?


I don't believe there are rules set in stone. It depends on what you together with your supportive group of other souls and guides and teachers decide what is best for you, once you leave this life. If you got "muddled up" in this life and were not able to do what you had set out to do, you might look at what hindered you, what sidetracked you, what was especially difficult for you, for example, conflicts with others, or greed for material possessions, or laziness, or what have you, and you might decide for your next earthly life to look more closely at these difficulties to overcome them. You also have the freedom not to incarnate again but to learn only while in spirit.

As to why we evolve or why there is even a need to evolve, I don't know the answer to that. I find 'why' questions almost impossible to answer. All I can ever come up with are speculations.
I think it's worthwhile examining some of the beliefs and assumptions being made in these questions (and answers), about the nature of this "soul".

: That every person has one, or "is" one.
: That it existed prior to the creation of their physical body, somehow attached to it during the incarnate life, and then afterward detaches and continues its independent existence.
: That it has distinct qualities and purpose(s) that persist with it through time.
: That it takes successive forms at varying intervals in order to manifest those (reincarnation).
: That it has associations with other souls and maintains those connections through multiple incarnations.

I am not comfortable with any of these assumptions, especially that of reincarnation. (The Christian notion of "everlasting life" is the same thing, only without the successive incarnations.)

I increasingly see them as misguided attempts of the human ego to deal with its own impermanence, i.e. extend it's individualized existence beyond that of a given life, pretend that it's own nature is more permanent than it is.

Such talk about things lasting forever is childish. There is no evidence that anything does. Even our Sun, the source of life, and therefore consciousness, in our solar system, has a life-cycle. We just happen to have made an appearance in the goldilocks phase of it. Everything is "just right" but will not remain so forever.
Yet the NDE reports that there is no time.

Notions about "permanence", "impermanence", "forever", "everlasting", etc. kinda go out the window (so to speak).

Look at the life of the photon (while remembering what Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose said about we [ie, consciousness] being light):

http://www.universetoday.com/111603/does-light-experience-time/
An interesting read, but I don't see the connection with the topic of this thread, or my post, which is specific to the human soul.

Why does someone reporting in an NDE account that "time didn't exist" throw everything out the window??
creatureoflight wrote: Hi:)
I have a question about soul evolution and development. Why does the soul "evolve?" If we are part of God, shouldn't we know everything there is to know? I think we are on Earth to experience things, but I don't really understand the concept of soul evolution. Is soul evolution something we desire as souls or something God makes us do?
Thanks!!!!!


creatureoflight wrote: and another thing: Let's say our soul does not fulfill a life "goal." Does it incarnate until it does? E.g a person wanted to open a center for spiritual learning. But they got so muddled up that they did not do it. Would they incarnate as long as it takes to achieve this? Or change the mission?


Hi, Creatureoflight.

Based on what I have read in NDE accounts and based on my own personal experience, if we are part of our Divine Source, then we are all in this together, so to speak, and a word such as evolution could well be a synonym for co-creation and/or exploration in a reality where time is not timeless and blissful as in the Greater Reality we belong to, as I tried to express in my reply to
Some questions about NDEs a few days ago.

As Rey put it:

Rey wrote: Yet the NDE reports that there is no time


and I have personally experienced timelessness even though I have not had a NDE.


Precaud wrote: Such talk about things lasting forever is childish.


Hi, Precaud!

I must say some tend to see any reference to children and childishness as a compliment. :D Seeing a sparkle of joy in the eyes of an elderly person who has forgiven and forgotten about all earthly conflicts and concerns as s/he opens a Christmas present or looks at her/his grandchildren with pride are but a couple of examples of what I believe Jesus might have meant when He spoke these words (however accurately they might have been translated):


Matthew 18:1-5

I feel children's NDE's are a great example of the innocent wisdom that comes from "childishness".

Precaud wrote: I am not comfortable with any of these assumptions


Fair enough.

John 14:2

These words (however accurately they might have been translated) come in handy and seem to suggest that there is room for all sorts of approaches to the notion of time, soul and evolution, and I feel one needn't be Christian or childish to appreciate that.

Precaud wrote: An interesting read, but I don't see the connection with the topic of this thread, or my post, which is specific to the human soul.

Why does someone reporting in an NDE account that "time didn't exist" throw everything out the window??


Thanks for the link Rey. As far as I understand, we are addressing «Notions about "permanence", "impermanence", "forever", "everlasting", etc."» and not "everything".

I would not be too strict about getting off track when such profound questions as the evolution of the human soul and possibly getting caught up in linear-time reincarnation are raised. In my humble opinion, if a reader feels it is:


Precaud wrote: worthwhile examining some of the beliefs and assumptions being made in these questions (and answers), about the nature of this "soul".


then other readers may find it helpful to comment any analysis that has been made. I made a comment on time and timelessenes even before reading your analysis about "things lasting forever".

Thanks for these thought provoking questions, Creatureoflight! I look forward to any other thoughts on the subject :D
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
First of all I want to thank everyone for their contributions to the subject. All of your insights are very much appreciated.
@Precaud: I believe that everyone has a right to their own opinion. I can understand why you are not comfortable with the idea of a soul etc. There are many reasons that lead a person to come to this conclusion. However, are you sure this is the right forum option? Most people on here are going to be avid believers in the afterlife and are trying to analyze NDEs. But again, any thoughts you have are welcome here. So I think you might not find the kind of answer you are searching for here.

@Giulia
I read your reply to the other thread I posted and found it to be very insightful. I think we have pretty much the same 'world view' on this topic. Personally, the idea of God judging us makes absolutely no sense to me. But there is something else I cannot find an answer to: what is the goal of all these incarnations? I read somewhere that is a limited process, which upon completion allows us to be one with God forever. But isn't this kind of stupid? I mean, who decides what is perfect and what is not and when our cycle of reincarnation is completed? There are so many viewpoints on life and one would never be done with reincarnating because there is so much to experience. And also, what kind of God would create us and then NOT allow us to be one with him forever? I think if we are created, then we should be allowed to be with God always and not based upon our reincarnational cycle. I think we should seek these incarnations because we as souls desire to experience something, but not because God makes us do it. Maybe there are NDE revelations on this website that you now of that kind of support this? About co-creation: this would fit in very well with this model of God, because then we and God are co-creating reality in every second that we are alive. We are equal to God, because we are God. There is no difference between God and us. We are all one and that is why we must treat everyone as we would like to be treated, because we are only hurting ourselves. So we must respect everything that God created, even the creatures we think are worthless like insects etc. I understand being one with God as merging with his energies and seeing the world as he (she?) sees it.
Again, thank you for all of your time answering these questions. We all really appreciate it.
@creatureoflight, it's an interesting bunch of assumptions you've made while "putting me in my place". All of them incorrect. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

I am VERY comfortable with the "idea of" the human soul and the afterlife (it would be fair to say I have been focused on it for decades), but just not:
: a personalized one that lives independently across numerous incarnations.
: that they are a "given", and everyone has one.

As I said, these notions reflect the priorities of the human ego, which is intimately related to the soul, but has a bit of a control issue and has to be trained to see beyond itself.

I have come to see soul development as a potential, not a given. Many humans have no opportunity to do so, no fault of their own; the conditions of their existence do not allow for it. You and I appear to be among the lucky ones. We have a responsibility toward those less fortunate.

Many others have little or no interest in matters beyond their personal existence.

My view and understanding of these questions of "soul development and permanence" has evolved over the years, from other cosmological considerations and from "inner attentiveness". The basic gist of it would be that, should we as individuals develop soul, soul qualities, soul awarenesses, we do so from our own initiative. But we can not hang on to them; they are part of the gift we bring and give to the Creator at the end of the incarnation (though we don't have to wait till the end to do it.) It is our unique contribution to the Collective Being ("God") in which we participate. For some humans, this soul was developed more coherently and resonates beyond the incarnation. But at some point the soul loses its individual characteristics and blends indistinguishably back into the Source. Time-wise, this could be in a matter of days, or millenia. I think you can come up with examples running the gamut.

And it seems you find some agreement with this point of view; you wrote:
" I think if we are created, then we should be allowed to be with God always and not based upon our reincarnational cycle."
and
"There is no difference between God and us. We are all one..."

I might quibble with the wording, but the gist is very much the same. And I'll go with the latter, for if we're looking for "soul qualities" in others, it would primarily be recognizing commonalities.

I hope this helps.
Im going to chime in here just for the fun of it .

First of all I will let you know that I have read the entire Topic and its very seldom that I get seriously involved in responding to a topic:

There : That was my disclaimer

" I think if we are created, then we should be allowed to be with God always and not based upon our reincarnational cycle."


Would you want to spend forever with Your Dad? I wouldn't ! I liked spending some time with him ( not enough I realize now ) but there was so many other things to do and to check out and to explore.

" I think if we are created, then we should be allowed to be with God always and not based upon our reincarnational cycle."


I look at life as " Going to an Amusement Park " were I can pick and choose what ride I want to go on and I have to get on as many as I can before they close the park for the night, and I have to go back home.




I enjoy reading your back and forth postings but why I never get involved is real simple. I dont care as I know that when the " Amusement Park Closes " I am going home and when I get there I will be
" reinfused " with everything I need to know. ( It's a need to Know basis ) you know, " This life here on Earth "

I am just happy to sit in the background and make sure this place keeps running well so you guys can chatter away to your hearts content.
Happy New Year
to you all from
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Thank you Garry :)
creatureoflight wrote: But there is something else I cannot find an answer to: what is the goal of all these incarnations? I read somewhere that is a limited process, which upon completion allows us to be one with God forever. But isn't this kind of stupid? I mean, who decides what is perfect and what is not and when our cycle of reincarnation is completed? There are so many viewpoints on life and one would never be done with reincarnating because there is so much to experience. And also, what kind of God would create us and then NOT allow us to be one with him forever? I think if we are created, then we should be allowed to be with God always and not based upon our reincarnational cycle. I think we should seek these incarnations because we as souls desire to experience something, but not because God makes us do it.


Hi, Creatureoflight. If you ask for my opinion, I do not think any of us is obliged to incarnate, let alone have a cycle of reincarnations “within” a linear time sequence. That is what I was trying to say in the other thread when I mentioned the fact that, out of time, any multiple lives can appear as parallel or simultaneous.

However, I have found that the idea of a reincarnation cycle experienced “within” linear time as a debt-paying method can occasionally help bereaved people, as some find comfort in the thought that they are not simply “unlucky”, but that they are fulfilling a mission they had failed to fulfil in a previous life, which does not deprive then completely of the faith in a loving God. Hence the realisation that the evolution of the soul through sequential lives could be seen as a tool to face grief and loss, which deserves to be respected as any other belief that is peacefully experienced.

Regarding evidence offered by NDEs, in Dannion Brinkley’s first NDE, the disincarnate being he meets tells him, just before he returns to his body and wakes up in the morgue, his face covered by a sheet: “You humans are truly the heroes," (...) "Those who go to earth are heroes and heroines, because you are doing something that no other spiritual beings have the courage to do. You have gone to earth to co-create with God." I know some have tried to debunk Brinkley’s NDE, but when something rings true to me, I tend to regard it as a reminder of why I am here.


creatureoflight wrote: We are all one and that is why we must treat everyone as we would like to be treated, because we are only hurting ourselves. So we must respect everything that God created, even the creatures we think are worthless like insects etc. I understand being one with God as merging with his energies and seeing the world as he (she?) sees it.


Very wise of you to say this. You appear to already have the answers to your questions. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that we are indeed one with our Divine Source always, and that our Divine Source is one with us, possibly experiencing multidimensionality, but also sadness, regret and pity, just as we do. However, as many NDErs report, “forgetting” about this togetherness and belonging to each other is the key requirement in order to experience this earthly life (some kind of "Prime Directive" if you are familiar with the Star Trek series) even though we do get reminders and triggers all the time.

This is why, if something rings true to me, I take it as a sign that it is right to at least try and comply with whatever that requirement involves, such as the key message coming from NDEs, which you quoted, that we need to “treat everyone as we would like to be treated, because we are only hurting ourselves”.

I get the feeling, as Garry put it, that:


Garry wrote: when the " Amusement Park Closes " I am going home and when I get there I will be "reinfused " with everything I need to know.


This sort of ties in with the sense of urgency one can experience throughout one’s life to do whatever we came here to do, hopefully not out of fear but out of love.

Happy New Year from me too.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Because its the breatest fun ever!

Look at a child... they play because its fun.

So do we. We joy at creating ....for fun. And slowly we learn how to create more... better....
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