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Ask21771 wrote: The bible talks about God sending deceptive signs and delusions to people who didn't love the truth how do we know ndes aren't God ordained deceptions


Welcome back, Ask! That's an interesting question. I would like to make sure you have read the replies to your earlier question Are NDEs a trick of the devil? posted on 30 September, 2016, as I feel some excellent feedback was offered to you, which you might have missed. I'd love to hear your opinion about the answers you got back in September before tackling this one. :D
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
In general, NDEers as a result of their experience report increased acceptance of others, becoming more loving, empatheic, understanding of others, and involvement in family. Religious attitudes that were significantly increased included understanding the purpose of life, sensed inner meaning of life, and an interest in spirituality. The attitude to death showed a marked decline in the fear of death and a belief in life after death.

Most frequent experiences or changes included :

- Physical Healing
- Experiencing Unconditional Love
- Belief in God & Life After Death (even if they had before been atheist)
- Becoming More Spiritual
- Positive Life Style Changes (often involving helping others)
- Paranormal Gitfs (healing, speaking in tongues, etc)


After eight years, people with an NDE scored significantly higher in the following areas: showing emotions; less interest in the opinion of others; accepting others; compassion for others; involvement in family; less appreciation of money and possessions; increase in the importance of nature and environment; less interest in a higher standard of living; appreciation of ordinary things; sense of social justice; inner meaning of life; increased interest in spirituality; less fear of death; less fear of dying; and increase in belief in life after death. These different levels of change are a consequence of the NDE and not of surviving a cardiac arrest.

— NDE Researcher Dr. Pim van Lommel, Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death Experience

http://the-formula.org/powerful-life-ch ... ce-quotes/

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"Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?"

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."

"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?"
Hi, Ask,
Wow. That is a very ugly passage.
For me my nde did not send me away from God. I feel closer...I have the Holy Spirit strongly within me. That, will never change and was greatly strengthened by my nde.
I wish Dennis would answer this, he is so good at these kinds of questions.
I have a hard time reading, KJV, so I went for the more contemporary, NIV.
I think the passage is referring to anti-christs who will be present in our lives, and can lead us to believe false things. But, Christ says He will defeat them. No worries...read, John 3:16.
I think as an experiencer I need to remember that I only saw a preview of what is to come. It was not the complete picture. But, it did tell me of the love waiting for me.
“During my near-death experience I had a descent into what you might call Hell, and it was very surprising. I did not see Satan or evil. My descent into Hell was a descent into each person’s customized human misery, ignorance, and darkness of not knowing. It seemed like a miserable eternity. But each of the millions of souls around me had a little star of light always available. But no one seemed to pay attention to it. They were so consumed with their own grief, trauma and misery. But, after what seemed an eternity, I started calling out to that Light, like a child calling to a parent for help. Then the Light opened up and formed a tunnel that came right to me and insulated me from all that fear and pain… The Light came to me and turned into a huge golden angel… Then I was taken to the Light.”

— NDEr Mellen-Thomas Benedict


"Imagine there is a huge warehouse, which is dark, and you live in this warehouse with one flashlight. Everything you know about this warehouse is seen through the light of this one small flashlight. Whenever you want to look for something, you may or may not find it, but it does not mean the thing does not exist. It is there, but you just haven’t flashed your light on it. You can only see what your light is focused on. Then one day, someone flicks on a lightswitch, and for the first time, you can see the whole warehouse. The vastness of it is almost overwhelming, you can’t see all the way to the end, and you know there is more than what you can see. But you do see how all the products are lined up on all the shelves, and you notice just how many different things there are in the warehouse which you never noticed, never even conceived having existed, yet they do, simultaneously with the things you know existed (those are the things your flashlight had been able to find). Then, even when the light switch goes back off, nothing can take away the understanding and clarity of your experience. Even though you are back to one flashlight, you now know how to look for things. You know what is possible, and you even know what to look for. You start viewing things differently, and it is from this new springboard that your experiences start to happen."

— NDEr Anita Moorjani

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Ref: http://the-formula.org/powerful-life-changing-near-death-experience-quotes/
Ask21771 wrote: This is different


Hi, Ask. The reasons I asked for your feedback about the replies you got in the other thread you started was simply to find out whether you had read the replies or missed them. May I ask if you have read them?

You seem to be worried about the possibility that the loving divine source described by so many NDErs is not loving at all, and you seem to be questioning first-hand experiences because of the translation of a biblical passage written 2000 years ago, transcribed many times and translated into many different languages and which may have, as a result of this, been completely misunderstood.

In my humble opinion deception is a purely man-made strategy, the most vicious case being self-deception, as this can happen at a subconscious level too: when that happens, we may find it difficult to see the benefit of having so many kind souls (as the loving people who have so far put an effort into trying to reassure you in both threads), and continue worrying!
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Ask21771 wrote: The main cause of my concern https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV


Hi Ask,

I'll start by saying I'm a preterist and believe the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 is when the majority, if not all, of the prophecies were fulfilled. (My father was a theologian and a pastor who also believed firmly in this.) One passage that solidifies this more than any other to me are Christ's words: "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." He was speaking of things to come soon, not thousands of years later.

As for the passages in Thessalonians 2, Paul's writing of this letter to the people was to clear up misconceptions and misunderstanding of the 1st letter. Many had stopped working thinking there was no reason since the 2nd coming was upon them. Paul tells them to return to the Lord's work, and comforted/exhorted them to continue to do so in spite of hardships to come in their lives because there was a terrible evil about to descend upon them.

I understand your questions on NDEs and had the same concerns when I first learned of them, but have since had a huge change of heart. Upon studying other religions I've found what people learn and/or experience during their NDEs correlate with beliefs of the afterlife in many of them. But the most important of all is the unconditional LOVE that nearly all speak of that they experience.

Your search for truth, mine, and everyone else who earns for it is a life long trek. Our points of view are different because God created us to be individuals which makes life all the more wonderful. My hope for you is to find the answers you're searching for. :D I can say I'm still searching and enjoy the process.
Rey,
Thanks, for sharing those. I remember Anita talking about the light in the warehouse...I loved that then and enjoyed the reminder.
Ask,
I know evil exits. Apparently, a few experiencers have found and described it. We see it everyday in the news.
If you are looking for perfect scientific proof of beliefs...well, that does not exist in this realm. That's why it's called faith.
Ask21771 wrote: THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!!!!


Well if you can't accept that then maybe your in the wrong place looking for the answer as we here are no different than anybody else

We are just looking for the answer ourselves !!
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Ask21771 wrote: im trying to find out if the devil has the power to create ndes


Ask21771 wrote: …how do we know ndes aren't God ordained deceptions


Ask21771 wrote: Then you have to admit there's a chance that ndes are satanic deceptions meant to damn us to hell


Ask21771 wrote: This is different


Hi, Ask! It sounds as though this is NOT different.

Are you wondering whether God and Satan are the same thing, or whether a Loving God, as Jesus describes, could ever use pure evil tactics to cause humanity to choose eternal damnation?

I realise that millennia of confusing information coming from religious ministers who were and are supposed to guide humanity in understanding Jesus’ words can be at the root of such questions, and I am sorry the great contributions you have obtained here are not enough to dispel your concerns.

Nonetheless, I am sure many other readers will benefit from learning about the historical background Sevinufnine has so kindly shared, and from many other precious contributions by Dennis, Rey, ano1, and many others.

I suspect even you could get a chance of making up your mind by reading through the various threads and first-hand experiences reported here and by the NDERF website, if you took the time and had the freedom to think and draw conclusions.

However, if you do not have the freedom to think and draw your own conclusions, as Garry clearly stated, this may be the wrong place for you to seek answers.

Please read our Mission Statement: that may clarify a few doubts.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Ask21771 wrote: Then you have to admit there's a chance that ndes are satanic deceptions meant to damn us to hell


I'm not sure how experiencing such a joyful and loving place can be twisted into anyone thinking it could be a trick to damn me to hell. After all, my experience has lead me to love everyone, see the good in every thing, and communicate daily to that loving force that created all of this including me and you. I am a better person after having this experience, so I'm not sure how this can be viewed as a "satanic" deception...
Ask21771 wrote: What proof is there that 2 Thessalonians isn't talking about ndes


I can only speak for myself, but I see no evidence in that letter by Paul he was discussing the topic. It's a letter of greeting, encouragement/exhortation, and warning. (To be 100% certain we'd need to ask Paul himself I suppose!)

Something I have you may enjoy and wish to purchase is a complete word study for the new testament. Each word is numbered so you can refer to it's definiation and meaning in the original tongue/language. For me it's brought much meaning to some passages that can be hard to understand. Just a thought....
Ask21771 wrote: Because the message of most ndes go against the bible


Can you be a little more specific?

I feel the majority of NDE messages confirm what the bible tells us about things we could never know without dying. That "force" I became a part of, and it a part of me, is the force I think about when I pray now. I also feel that force is the ultimate immeasurable sum of everything, what I now call God.

During my journey to this place there was a similar, smaller, and even a measurable force that had a similar love for me that was with me through it all, he was even there with me during my life review, and I could feel his love and understanding for/of me, even though I was ashamed at a lot of my past life, he understood. I like to think of this "force" as the son of that God.
Ask,

No need to scream. I understand what you are asking. Questioning, is how we gain knowledge, wisdom and discernment. I didn't get to this age without a bit of questioning, too.
I think I know where you are coming from. I think of people believing (pre-war) that Hitler was to be a great fixer of problems of their times. He proved to be something else. He was a deceiver.

With the nde...I only know love, light and goodness. It has been over forty years, and I still only know love, light and goodness, from my nde.
This is my understanding: God temps, no one. Temptation is not from God. God is good and loving. God is light. Every good and perfect gift... is from God. He never waivers or changes.

Temptation is from the evil one. Sometimes, God allows this temptation, but it is not of Him. We do have free will. The evil one strikes at our weaknesses, he knows them well and we can easily accept temptation. This causes us to constantly be on guard against temptation and deception. We need this awareness.
Additionally: My nde has only strengthened my ties to God.
The evil one pulls people away from God.

In our hearts, I believe we all know and feel when we are doing something we should not.
Likewise, I know and feel the love experienced in my nde, (and by the sounds of it, Calvin's, too) was from God.
Inherently, I know this.


Additionally: My nde has only strengthened my ties to God.
The evil one pulls people away from God.
Those lines in my post, after 'addtionally' should only be the last two lines of the post. For some reason I was not able to edit out the duplicate. Thanks.
Ask21771 wrote:
Calvin wrote:
Ask21771 wrote: Then you have to admit there's a chance that ndes are satanic deceptions meant to damn us to hell


I'm not sure how experiencing such a joyful and loving place can be twisted into anyone thinking it could be a trick to damn me to hell. After all, my experience has lead me to love everyone, see the good in every thing, and communicate daily to that loving force that created all of this including me and you. I am a better person after having this experience, so I'm not sure how this can be viewed as a "satanic" deception...


Because the message of most ndes go against the bible


This is a long read, but worth it.

http://www.near-death.com/religion/bibl ... lical.html
Ask21771 wrote: I've skimmed it before it's just his interpretation with no evidence to back it up


Hi, Ask. Forums are made for discussing topics with like-minded people. Skimming over the conclusions of one of the greatest researchers in the field of NDEs and, above all, on first-hand experiences freely and lovingly shared by kind and compassionate forum members who have had an NDE themselves, on the thoughts of forum members who have thoroughly researched the topic and on the contributions of forum members who have studied the Bible and its History is taking this thread off-topic and it seems to be taking you off-track.

If you feel that NDEs are God ordained deceptions, why not simply ignore the topic and seek a congregation that offers you the comforting evidence you are seeking?

ano1 wrote: Those lines in my post, after 'addtionally' should only be the last two lines of the post. For some reason I was not able to edit out the duplicate. Thanks.


Hi, ano. I have e-mailed you about this as I am not 100% sure which part you need editing.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Rey wrote: “During my near-death experience I had a descent into what you might call Hell, and it was very surprising. I did not see Satan or evil. My descent into Hell was a descent into each person’s customized human misery, ignorance, and darkness of not knowing. It seemed like a miserable eternity. But each of the millions of souls around me had a little star of light always available. But no one seemed to pay attention to it. They were so consumed with their own grief, trauma and misery. But, after what seemed an eternity, I started calling out to that Light, like a child calling to a parent for help. Then the Light opened up and formed a tunnel that came right to me and insulated me from all that fear and pain… The Light came to me and turned into a huge golden angel… Then I was taken to the Light.”

— NDEr Mellen-Thomas Benedict


Hi, Rey. I am sorry I am late with my reply, but I meant to say that Mellen-Thomas Benedict's experience ties in with what many afterlife accounts received through deep-trance mediumship also say. Help out of one's own misery is described as always being available for those who genuinely seek it. This is what I feel the good news is.

Based on my own understanding, there is nothing wrong about sticking with one religious belief or another one, as long as it provides comfort and guidance about the golden rule that Jesus and other religious leaders, as well as NDEs, have always shared: Love is the key. I feel the problem arises when one belief system is said to be the only true one. That's where so much confusion and fear may result from, along with wars, which have nothing to do with Love.

I am ever so sad about this, but also feel that this physical life is where the denser energy is experienced and can best be dealt with.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Ask21771 wrote: I've skimmed it before it's just his interpretation with no evidence to back it up



Nor is there evidence to back up NDE's are mearly a deception from Satan OR God.
s,
Well said.
sevinufnine wrote:
Ask21771 wrote: I've skimmed it before it's just his interpretation with no evidence to back it up



Nor is there evidence to back up NDE's are merely a deception from Satan OR God.


This is my take on this particular thread.




Ask21771, you are free here on this forum to " Believe " or " Not Believe " anything you wish. You are also free to ask any questions you wish.

Just as I, myself, am free to tell any members that wish to know, about the " Friend and Foe list "


If anybody like myself is getting tired of this particularly ( In my opinion ) Aggressive Conversation ) you are welcome to read this posting, which I made just so you understand how to put someone you have had enough of, on your Foe list and effectively " Block " any further conversation, that particular person might be involved in .

Info on using the " Friend or Foe " function in this forum




















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Ask,
you ask for proof and evidence. That's an excellent start to any serious investigation. However, an even better start is to question your own assumptions first.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you come across as someone convinced that the bible as found in the KJV translation is the infallible word of God. Is that correct? This matters a lot in any discussion because, if we don't establish our presuppositions from the start we risk talking about the same things while meaning something completely different. We all need to be on the same page for a discussion to be of any value.

If the above is true then you will need to find Biblical proof (ie: logically consistent proof that remains within the biblical record). This follows from the assumption that the bible is infallible. In my case, I don't believe it is because there is too much evidence to the contrary. But let's not get into that as it is a different discussion that has no relation to NDEs.
Even though I don't personally believe the Bible is meant to be taken literally, I can probably help you find texts to help clarify NDEs from a biblical perspective if you want.

My question to you is "Are you looking for Biblical proof?" That has to be answered first, then we can take it from there.
Ask, do you believe in ndes?
Ask21771 wrote: I'm looking for proof that ndes are not God ordained deceptions


When something like this happens that seems so difficult (or even impossible) but personally is so important (or seemingly urgent), I simply direct the request to God personally.

Be not of little faith.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye. shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh. findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

Please PM me what you find out.

Regards,

Rey
Garry wrote:
sevinufnine wrote:
Ask21771 wrote: I've skimmed it before it's just his interpretation with no evidence to back it up



Nor is there evidence to back up NDE's are merely a deception from Satan OR God.


This is my take on this particular thread.




Ask21771, you are free here on this forum to " Believe " or " Not Believe " anything you wish. You are also free to ask any questions you wish.

Just as I, myself, am free to tell any members that wish to know, about the " Friend and Foe list "


If anybody like myself is getting tired of this particularly ( In my opinion ) Aggressive Conversation ) you are welcome to read this posting, which I made just so you understand how to put someone you have had enough of, on your Foe list and effectively " Block " any further conversation, that particular person might be involved in .

Info on using the " Friend or Foe " function in this forum




















Image




Why Am I Here




One Look Dictionary
ano1 wrote: Hi, Ask,
Wow. That is a very ugly passage.
For me my nde did not send me away from God. I feel closer...I have the Holy Spirit strongly within me. That, will never change and was greatly strengthened by my nde.
I wish Dennis would answer this, he is so good at these kinds of questions.
I have a hard time reading, KJV, so I went for the more contemporary, NIV.
I think the passage is referring to anti-christs who will be present in our lives, and can lead us to believe false things. But, Christ says He will defeat them. No worries...read, John 3:16.
I think as an experiencer I need to remember that I only saw a preview of what is to come. It was not the complete picture. But, it did tell me of the love waiting for me.


I've never had an NDE myself but from all the experiences I've read 99.999% say they feel closer to God or a "Higher Power"
Life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it.


Ask21771 wrote: That doesn't in anyway rule out it being a God ordained lie


Ask21771, I have formally warned you for trolling this forum. This is a discussion forum: it is not designed for playing games, but for exchanging ideas in compliance with our mission statement and joining rules. If you are not interested in reading what our well-meaning members have to say and in taking part in the discussion, but simply continue dropping merely provocative notes such as these, the administration team may decide to ban you without further notice.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
I'll give you my raw uncut response ask;

You want proof, but not by faith, obviously also not by testimony, what kind of proof remains then? Science has nothing at all to say on God; you may as well ask whether NDEs are ordained by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Only your personal experience would seem to be enough, if that. Dare I hope you should experience an NDE? I'm not convinced of the ethics...

What kind of God ordains lies? That God would be in cahoots with the devil and a right 4$$h0l3 if you ask me.

If the above statement makes your stomach churn, then I refer you to my earlier post on preconceptions.
Ask21771 wrote: What proof is there that 2 Thessalonians isn't talking about ndes


Ask21771 wrote: I'm looking for proof that ndes are not God ordained deceptions


I have been following this thread now for some time and have been looking up the said text in my own Bible, which is a German translation of the Bible. And there the text doesn't hint in any way towards NDEs. But it is one of the letters that Paul was writing to one of his Christian Groups, and Paul as we know, was not originally a disciple of Jesus, and didn't know Jesus during his lifetime. Actually he was originally Saul and was persecuting Christians after the crucifixion of Jesus.
Anyhow the thought 'NDE and Paul' suddenly made an association in my brain, and it struck me how close the experience that Saul had (when he fell from his horse and met Jesus) comes to an NDE.
Both men Jesus and Paul are the most important people concerning Christianity, but they have been fundamentally different in character.
Jesus was talking about love, and acting his word. He was full of love and compassion (up to loving his enemies), trying to tell his surroundings that God was a loving Father, which he called 'ABBA', which in English would mean 'Daddy'. He was healing and helping, especially the poor and helpless. Almost never became violent in any way.
Saul was a man of the law, sticking to the letter, and had no real love and compassion for the victims he persecuted, as he felt that he was doing the right thing as the law commended. And then one day he had his 'accident' and his 'experience'. After this experience he changed radically, (even so far to change name). Very similar to nowadays NDErs, he suddenly was able to know and speak about love, and with the same energy that he used to have when persecuting, he now took on the cause of Jesus.
In a way, today there are thousands and thousands of 'Pauls' and Paulines' that arise after their experiences.

(So now I will start to play advocatus diaboli. Not that I believe in any devil.)

If we want to tell that the devil might induce this kind of experiences 'how can we be sure that it was not the same with Paul's experience? And if this had been the case, what would be the value of his teachings today? How could they be God's word? We also only have his word for this!

So how can we know what comes of God and what is not?

Well somewhere in the Gospels Jesus told his disciples something like: 'You will know them through their actions!!
What were the actions of Paul after his experience? He started to know and talk about love, worked for the rest of his life to continue Jesus' work and in the end gave his life for this. In this respect we can assume that his experience was of God.

What about today's Experiencers? Same as Paul they are changed, they know and talk about divine love, their whole lives come round in a positive way. And same as with Paul we can rightly assume that their experience was of God.

Another thing that I want to emphasize.
As is known the 'devil' is considered to be evil.
So if we have fear of evil and 'devil', then we are investing a good part of our valuable life energy into this fear, and we are unknowingly contributing to make the 'devil' stronger, to give it substance (in a way we feed the beast). I can't see any reason why we should do that. It would be by far more constructive to invest this energy in doing good, and by this, counterbalance what others do wrong. If more and more people do this, one day the scale will tip to the good side and there might be no weight any more on the 'bad' side of the scale.
[quote="DennisMe"]I'll give you my raw uncut response ask;

You want proof, but not by faith, obviously also not by testimony, what kind of proof remains then? Science has nothing at all to say on God; you may as well ask whether NDEs are ordained by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Flying Spaghetti Monster. Laughed out loud at that one :) This thread needed that. Thanks!!!!
Ask21771 wrote: Testimony doesn't help much when it Involves an omnipotent being who can make us see feel and believe whatever he wants us to


If this is the way you think, you couldn't even be sure that you exist, as the omnipotent being could very well just be dreaming you and the whole world, and us too. ;)
Marguy,
"So how can we know what comes of God and what is not?

Well somewhere in the Gospels Jesus told his disciples something like: 'You will know them through their actions!!
What were the actions of Paul after his experience? He started to know and talk about love, worked for the rest of his life to continue Jesus' work and in the end gave his life for this. In this respect we can assume that his experience was of God."

What about today's Experiencers? Same as Paul they are changed, they know and talk about divine love, their whole lives come round in a positive way. And same as with Paul we can rightly assume that their experience was of God.

Thanks, for the voice of reason.
Saved by the Light !

Born in 1950, Dannion Brinkley is the author of three international best selling books — Saved by the Light, At Peace in the Light, and Secrets of the Light. He is also a internationally known speaker who has appeared on hundreds of television and radio shows. In 1994 his New York Times bestseller, Saved by the Light, was the highest rated made-for-television movie of all time by the Fox Network. Drawing on his three near-death experiences, Dannion speaks to diverse audiences worldwide on topics including Near-Death Experiences, Palliative and Hospice Care, and Complementary and Alternative Healing Practices. In 1997, Dannion co-founded The Twilight Brigade in Los Angeles with a small but dedicated team of experience hospice volunteers and trainers. Since then, more than 5,300 have taken the volunteer training. Dannion has also received dozens of awards for his achievements and volunteer service, including the President’s Lifetime Achievement Award for Outstanding Volunteer Service, the VFW Women’s Auxiliary Cherished Heroes Award, the Courage and Valor Award from the National Foundation for Women Legislators and numerous VA Awards including the VA Special Secretary’s Award and the Heart of Hospice Award, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Association’s highest honor.

http://ndestories.org/dannion-brinkley/

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• Rob Wood - http://ndestories.org/rob-wood/
• George Rodonaia - http://ndestories.org/dr-george-rodonaia/
• Betty Eadie - http://ndestories.org/betty-j-eadie/
• Jeremy Kagan - http://ndestories.org/jeremy-kagan/
Hello Ask21771, you certainly asked an interesting question and at first I misunderstood what you were asking. In regards to deceptions and delusions to people who oppose God I can see why someone may think that God may cause delusional rationalization or deceptions to people in a NDE experience.

I would like to give two short examples from a biblical perspective to illustrate what I think you are asking about regarding "tricking" people that they have some knowledge they acquired on their own without God's help and that is where I believe the answer lies to the question you asked:

In Exodus 7:11 Pharaoh was able to mimic Moses sorcery of turning a staff into a snake by the help of His Magicians and Sorceress. Pharaoh's delusion did not come from God but by his own arrogant merit but in the end it was shown to Him that his willful disobedience and magic was no match for God's power. I can't speak for other NDE's experiences but in my near death experience, I was not challenging or opposing God during the critical time of my death, I was actually placing my faith and hope in His capable hands to help me through the process. so in that situation, I see no reason why God would have to have an ordained deception to teach me a lesson about His power.

In 1 Kings 18:21 there was a spiritual showdown between Elijah and Ahab that whoever had their God rain fire from the sky for the sacrificial offering, was the true God to worship. King Ahab was delusional to think that he and his followers had the ability to summon supernatural powers from their God/Goddess through prayer, but in the end, only Elijah had the supernatural power help from God which once again demonstrated God's validity in front of a nation of people. I don't think this was a deliberate deception from God to trick people into thinking they had some gift or power they didn't have, it was more in the line of producing a challenge to show people who doubted God's validity and right to rule and be worshiped by people who chose to follow Him.

In that instance, I really do not see any benefit for God to produce a deception or delusion during my brief death period to prove His worth. So I don't see how a God ordained deception during a NDE experience would be justified in making any sense? I died, I observed the things that were around me, I tried to be as objective as I could during that critical time of my life so that if I were to come back alive, I could provide as much of an unbiased eye witness account of what happened to me and hopefully inspire people that there is a wonderful supreme being that is watching over us and that we do not have to be afraid during the last moments of our life. I hope what I wrote helps, in conclusion I want to provide one last observation of God that I hope clears up your question about deception or delusion that I think clearly illustrates that God is not in the deception or delusional business but the Devil certainly is:

In Genesis 3:3-5 God gave very clear and truthful instructions to Adam and Eve about not eating the fruit from the tree of Good and Evil in the middle of the garden which Eve recited to the "Wise Serpent" that they could not eat from it or touch it for they will surely die! The serpent was the one who deceived them by saying they would not die and also gave them the delusion that if they were to eat from the forbidden tree they could become God like. A person I hope will always understand the basics of what God is: that God will always tell the person the truth, even if it is something that is not pleasant or something you may not want to hear, He will not deceive you in any way either, that goes against His principle of always being truthful to you so that you can make the right decisions in life, He may Test your faith, but He will never tempt or deceive you to go away from Him. The Devil on the other hand will always lie to you, will tempt your faith, will provide delusions and deceptions to lead you away from the God Christians serve. so in that essence I really don't see how God would ever give an ordained deception to a person that experienced a NDE experience in their life, hope this helps and thanks for your question.
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