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I am Japanese
In cases where death is experienced, different forms appear for different cultures
The horrifying experience of seeing Jesus, or seeing Buddha and the other dead, is often found in the Orient

I would like to ask you about NDE cases.

1. Does God reveal fantasies to his culture or change his appearance? And is this hypothesis accepted by NDE researchers?
2. Is the afterlife a holographic world?
3. The NDE experience is different from that of the West. In the case of Korea and Japan, there is a rather terrifying experience. What is this? There are very few people who have seen the presence of light
Most say they've seen natural light or a scary old man's guide
Sometimes a person experiences an image of a horrible hell.
Hi Foxy,

From what I am aware of NDEs can indeed often be heavily influenced by culture, at-least in the beginning of the experience.

For my personal NDE, it was absolutely nothing like how I thought it would be. It was indeed much much better than anything I could have imagined.

I am not well informed on NDEs in the orient, however I have this nagging feeling that your classification of most or all orient NDEs as "terrible" or "hellish" to be wrong...

Something just tells me there's no way a 3rd of the world is going through hellish NDEs on a regular basis while the west gets to experience good NDEs. I'm unaware of any evidence to support your claims.

And to be quite honest with you, I don't know how anyone would call meeting Jesus or Buddha "terrifying". I think that would be very peaceful, and I don't see any real rationale for that being bad unless you have something to hide from your guide, in which case you might as well just accept that everyone knows everything about everybody in the afterlife. The beautiful thing is we've all made mistakes, there is no judgment.

I would encourage you to read around NDERF and IANDS and maybe try and pick out some that might be from the orient.
Welcome, foxy.

I must say I share Bjursten's perplexities about the statistical information you are providing. Unfortunately, I cannot read Japanese: do you happen to have links to any of such accounts translated into English?
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Giulia wrote: Welcome, foxy.

I must say I share Bjursten's perplexities about the statistical information you are providing. Unfortunately, I cannot read Japanese: do you happen to have links to any of such accounts translated into English?


i live in south korea
and actually i cant speak english well

and my opinion, nde is might be the a trick of the devil.
Bjursten wrote: Hi Foxy,

From what I am aware of NDEs can indeed often be heavily influenced by culture, at-least in the beginning of the experience.

For my personal NDE, it was absolutely nothing like how I thought it would be. It was indeed much much better than anything I could have imagined.

I am not well informed on NDEs in the orient, however I have this nagging feeling that your classification of most or all orient NDEs as "terrible" or "hellish" to be wrong...

Something just tells me there's no way a 3rd of the world is going through hellish NDEs on a regular basis while the west gets to experience good NDEs. I'm unaware of any evidence to support your claims.

And to be quite honest with you, I don't know how anyone would call meeting Jesus or Buddha "terrifying". I think that would be very peaceful, and I don't see any real rationale for that being bad unless you have something to hide from your guide, in which case you might as well just accept that everyone knows everything about everybody in the afterlife. The beautiful thing is we've all made mistakes, there is no judgment.

I would encourage you to read around NDERF and IANDS and maybe try and pick out some that might be from the orient.

Does that mean that the god will be able to show the fantasy to the culture or change his or her appearance?
I can not read English well. I'm doing translation.
foxy wrote:
Bjursten wrote: Hi Foxy,

From what I am aware of NDEs can indeed often be heavily influenced by culture, at-least in the beginning of the experience.

For my personal NDE, it was absolutely nothing like how I thought it would be. It was indeed much much better than anything I could have imagined.

I am not well informed on NDEs in the orient, however I have this nagging feeling that your classification of most or all orient NDEs as "terrible" or "hellish" to be wrong...

Something just tells me there's no way a 3rd of the world is going through hellish NDEs on a regular basis while the west gets to experience good NDEs. I'm unaware of any evidence to support your claims.

And to be quite honest with you, I don't know how anyone would call meeting Jesus or Buddha "terrifying". I think that would be very peaceful, and I don't see any real rationale for that being bad unless you have something to hide from your guide, in which case you might as well just accept that everyone knows everything about everybody in the afterlife. The beautiful thing is we've all made mistakes, there is no judgment.

I would encourage you to read around NDERF and IANDS and maybe try and pick out some that might be from the orient.

Does that mean that the god will be able to show the fantasy to the culture or change his or her appearance?
I can not read English well. I'm doing a translation.
foxy wrote: Does that mean that the god will be able to show the fantasy to the culture or change his or her appearance?
I can not read English well. I'm doing translation.


Yes God can change it's appearance and is a very commonly reported phenomenon.

For example, some people initially report seeing their God of choice, such as Jesus, and then after a little while these people report that Jesus changes into a "light" or "orb" of "pure love". That is a very common hallmark of NDEs.
foxy wrote:
and my opinion, nde is might be the a trick of the devil.


Interesting!
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Bjursten wrote:
foxy wrote: Does that mean that the god will be able to show the fantasy to the culture or change his or her appearance?
I can not read English well. I'm doing translation.


Yes God can change it's appearance and is a very commonly reported phenomenon.

For example, some people initially report seeing their God of choice, such as Jesus, and then after a little while these people report that Jesus changes into a "light" or "orb" of "pure love". That is a very common hallmark of NDEs.

In fact, it does not make sense that God appears to change his culture
Then it can be said that it could be a devil's trick in religion
Besides, I know that is also criticized by many NDE positivists
This is one of the reasons why the NDE experience loses credibility to the public
In fact, many people have seen horrible images and Grim Reaper before they died. Before they die.

And one asks, do many NDE researchers agree on the theory?
I'd like you to bring the evidence.

I once thought NDE was reliable, but not now.
I think it seems to be a logic similar to what theologians have interpreted about Malak Yahweh

Socrates also said that it was a fake that God showed illusions or changed his appearance. It has also spoken to his disciples.
Giulia wrote:
foxy wrote:
and my opinion, nde is might be the a trick of the devil.


Interesting!

but i'm not christian/jewish/muslim. i thought other devil shows such a vision.
foxy wrote:
Giulia wrote:
foxy wrote:
and my opinion, nde is might be the a trick of the devil.


Interesting!

but i'm not christian/jewish/muslim. i thought other devil shows such a vision.


Hi, foxy. Thanks for explaining this. May I ask what you mean by 'devili'? How do you write devil in your language? Where does the word come from? What does it mean to you?
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
foxy wrote: In fact, it does not make sense that God appears to change his culture
Then it can be said that it could be a devil's trick in religion
Besides, I know that is also criticized by many NDE positivists
This is one of the reasons why the NDE experience loses credibility to the public
In fact, many people have seen horrible images and Grim Reaper before they died. Before they die.

And one asks, do many NDE researchers agree on the theory?
I'd like you to bring the evidence.

I once thought NDE was reliable, but not now.
I think it seems to be a logic similar to what theologians have interpreted about Malak Yahweh

Socrates also said that it was a fake that God showed illusions or changed his appearance. It has also spoken to his disciples.


It make complete sense to me that God would/could change form(s). The idea that we will remain or are beholden to one specific form (ie. human) in the afterlife is an absolute joke and quite frankly hysterical to me. Has the expanse and endless possibilities of the universe somehow escaped some people's minds? Possibly. It's a laughing joke to me when people tell me God has to be human or appear in human form. That's just not true and the overwhelming majority of NDE reports confirm this. I do not mean to be aggressive or belittle anyone with this, but the universe is just simply too large with too many possibilities to limit God to being a specific form. By definition most religions call God limitless so why can't it be a possibility? Does his love change? No. But his form might? Yes. In fact there's evidence of this in the Bible all over the place...

My Experience: The love I felt and experienced in my NDE could not possibly have come from some made up devil. And personally, I saw nothing of such devil or evil spirits in my NDE. There were no evil spirits or evil anything. I am convinced that "satan" or the "devil" is just a man made symbol to deflect blame away from ourselves. Only we as human do or commit evil acts. There are no evil spirits making you be evil. It's time for mankind to man up and accept responsibility, because the only "hells" I saw in my NDE were made of people being condemned by themselves. Not God. Not me. Only themselves.

Once again I do not mean to be aggressive or hostile or belittle anyone. The beauty of all of this is that NDEs are very varied and nothing can be taken at face value, including what I say. This is a journey you must take on your own and come to your own conclusions.
Bjursten wrote:
foxy wrote: In fact, it does not make sense that God appears to change his culture
Then it can be said that it could be a devil's trick in religion
Besides, I know that is also criticized by many NDE positivists
This is one of the reasons why the NDE experience loses credibility to the public
In fact, many people have seen horrible images and Grim Reaper before they died. Before they die.

And one asks, do many NDE researchers agree on the theory?
I'd like you to bring the evidence.

I once thought NDE was reliable, but not now.
I think it seems to be a logic similar to what theologians have interpreted about Malak Yahweh

Socrates also said that it was a fake that God showed illusions or changed his appearance. It has also spoken to his disciples.


It make complete sense to me that God would/could change form(s). The idea that we will remain or are beholden to one specific form (ie. human) in the afterlife is an absolute joke and quite frankly hysterical to me. Has the expanse and endless possibilities of the universe somehow escaped some people's minds? Possibly. It's a laughing joke to me when people tell me God has to be human or appear in human form. That's just not true and the overwhelming majority of NDE reports confirm this. I do not mean to be aggressive or belittle anyone with this, but the universe is just simply too large with too many possibilities to limit God to being a specific form. By definition most religions call God limitless so why can't it be a possibility? Does his love change? No. But his form might? Yes. In fact there's evidence of this in the Bible all over the place...

My Experience: The love I felt and experienced in my NDE could not possibly have come from some made up devil. And personally, I saw nothing of such devil or evil spirits in my NDE. There were no evil spirits or evil anything. I am convinced that "satan" or the "devil" is just a man made symbol to deflect blame away from ourselves. Only we as human do or commit evil acts. There are no evil spirits making you be evil. It's time for mankind to man up and accept responsibility, because the only "hells" I saw in my NDE were made of people being condemned by themselves. Not God. Not me. Only themselves.

Once again I do not mean to be aggressive or hostile or belittle anyone. The beauty of all of this is that NDEs are very varied and nothing can be taken at face value, including what I say. This is a journey you must take on your own and come to your own conclusions.

You did not bring proof to prove it.
I know that such a hypothesis has been criticized by many NDE researchers

If many NDE cases prove it
Numerous NDE cases in the Eastern prove that there is no such god


And in my home country, Japan, ND experience of the presence of light is very rare and most of them have not experienced God
In Korea, China, and India, there are many cases of seeing the Grim Reaper before they die
Commonly, They said that they saw the light but they did not feel the feeling of love at all.
There are a lot of cases that do not see light.

Anita Murzani, a famous NDE person in India, said that there is no god you are talking about
He said God is not a being, but a state of being.

Bring the evidence that many researchers agree with your argument
Is it hard to bring the evidence?

i left christianity when i 13 years old. But after seeing this, I'm thinking about believing in Christianity again.

Some researchers say that it shows fantasies to teach a lesson.(Some researchers who agree with your argument)
but there were no instructive experiences in the Eastern NDE cases, and most of them had a horrifying experience or encountered the hell.

The Eastern OBE case is completely different from the Western OBE case
There are cases where you see hell in a small number of OBE cases
The interesting fact is that most of what they say proves that there is no God that you claim
foxy wrote: You did not bring proof to prove it.


Foxy, in my humble opinion Bjursten offered a well-meaning reply.

"This is a non-profit, non-denominational and apolitical online discussion site, designed to support research and study of consciousness experiences, such as near death experiences and other spiritually transformative experiences, support experiencers and spread the message of love, unity and peace around the world. We do not allow proselytizing or bullying (please refer to our Joining Rules). We welcome and encourage people of all backgrounds, nationalities, countries and/or religions to bring up any topic they feel fit for this place and to read and participate in the conversations held here, in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere."


We are not here to convince you about anything or to offer evidence about anything.

foxy wrote: Bring the evidence that many researchers agree with your argument
Is it hard to bring the evidence?


Please see my first reply to you.

foxy wrote: i left christianity when i 13 years old. But after seeing this, I'm thinking about believing in Christianity again.


That's your choice, of course! Proselytising is not allowed here. However, you may wish to share your Christian experiences and thoughts in our Christianity Cafe.

foxy wrote: and my opinion, nde is might be the a trick of the devil.


Once again, may I ask what you mean by 'devili'? Maybe we can then understand your point better.
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Foxy,

Perhaps there are some language barriers that might be changing the meaning of our replies.

As to the proof you're asking for: as I have said before, this is a very individualistic journey that we must all make on our own. Whatever I say to you cannot be taken at face value, because my NDE only applies to me. Every NDE is different, and every interpretation and re-integration of the experience is different. There is no one hard truth with NDEs.

I think you're looking for scientific proof, and for that I don't think anyone can help you. The only science we have right now is that NDEs happen, that they happen fairly often, and that they can be varied between experiencers, but are "real" experiences to the experiencer.

There is no conclusive proof of one specific type of NDE or one specific God. That goes beyond what science can prove, and that part is left to the person experiencing the NDE.

I do agree with you to a degree that "God" is a state of being.

My NDE showed me that we are all "god" and a very real part of God. We are essentially fractals of God, experiencing all there is of God so we can bring our experiences back to God as we re-unite with the Light (God) at death. We are essentially off-shoots of God, a part of God, and together we are God.

I don't know if this is allowed but this verse from John 14:20 sums up the concept of God very well:
On that day you will realize that I am in [it], and you are in me, and I am in you.
Giulia wrote:
foxy wrote: You did not bring proof to prove it.


Foxy, in my humble opinion Bjursten offered a well-meaning reply.

"This is a non-profit, non-denominational and apolitical online discussion site, designed to support research and study of consciousness experiences, such as near death experiences and other spiritually transformative experiences, support experiencers and spread the message of love, unity and peace around the world. We do not allow proselytizing or bullying (please refer to our Joining Rules). We welcome and encourage people of all backgrounds, nationalities, countries and/or religions to bring up any topic they feel fit for this place and to read and participate in the conversations held here, in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere."


We are not here to convince you about anything or to offer evidence about anything.

foxy wrote: Bring the evidence that many researchers agree with your argument
Is it hard to bring the evidence?


Please see my first reply to you.

foxy wrote: i left christianity when i 13 years old. But after seeing this, I'm thinking about believing in Christianity again.


That's your choice, of course! Proselytising is not allowed here. However, you may wish to share your Christian experiences and thoughts in our Christianity Cafe.

foxy wrote: and my opinion, nde is might be the a trick of the devil.


Once again, may I ask what you mean by 'devili'? Maybe we can then understand your point better.

The answer is late, sorry.
I think the devil is a demon that speaks in Christianity or Islam, or a demon I do not know
Of course I still do not believe in Christianity.
foxy wrote: The answer is late, sorry.
I think the devil is a demon that speaks in Christianity or Islam, or a demon I do not know
Of course I still do not believe in Christianity.


Thanks for explaining, foxy. And never mind about being late. :A
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience
Foxy,

There was someone using screen name "Ask" that posted a lot about NDEs being a "trick of the devil", etc. Tried to find the link so you could read up as this topic was heavily discussed. Maybe someone else can find/provide it?
"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far today I've finished 2 bags of M&Ms and a chocolate cake. I feel better already! ~ Dave Barry :)
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