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"This is a non-profit, non-denominational and apolitical online discussion site, designed to support research and study of consciousness experiences, such as near death experiences and other spiritually transformative experiences, support experiencers and spread the message of love, unity and peace around the world. We do not allow proselytizing or bullying (please refer to our Joining Rules). We welcome and encourage people of all backgrounds, nationalities, countries and/or religions to bring up any topic they feel fit for this place and to read and participate in the conversations held here, in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere."
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My NDE was as a child of about 7 years of age and I just had my 69th birthday. I recently read NDE books by Long, Van Lommel, Atwater and others. I was struck by the idea that it requires 7 years to integrate and NDE. I would have been 13 or 14 by that time. Intriguingly, it was about that age that I began to pull away from organized religion.

Looking back, I can now understand how my NDE helped create the person I have become and continue to become. After my personal retrospection, I emailed Jody Long to request a phone conversation. That lengthy conversation took place on January 13. 2015. Jody suggested two things to me: 1. Join the forum and get in touch with Mischa. (Hey Mischa) 2. Jody thinks I may be what she calls a "light-bringer". I would like to explore that idea with others in NDERF.

I live in Canada in the Mountain Time zone. While I am not against emails and this forum, given my abysmal experience with electronic devices over the decades ( I may have crashed more PCs and watches than anyone else in my generation) my preference is for face-to face, phone or perhaps Skype.
If possible, Mischa, would you please email me.
Thanks

laoren
laoren wrote: 2. Jody thinks I may be what she calls a "light-bringer". I would like to explore that idea with others in NDERF.


Velcome Laroen,

"Light-bringer" is mostly person - which know that dark and shadows can be illuminated by light. Nice to have the light here.
Hello czjosef,

Thank you for your reply to my post.

I am not sure that I understand what you are trying to tell me. That may be much more my problem than yours.

I am in my 4th decade or Chinese Zen or daojia and I find that I need to experience something to understand it.

So far, I don't seem to be experiencing light-bringer. Again that may well be my lack of what that experience may be.

I am hoping that folks out there may be able to help experience this.

laoren
Hello Loaren and happy to have you join us. Please feel at home and explore and ask questions and we will do our best to answer them.

This is Garry , an Administrator and Misha being the other Administrator

I also live in Canada and Misha is in Russia. He told me he was going to be absent for a couple of days doing something so I don't know if he will get back to you right away but I know he will and he likes to chat and do the Skype thing.

As far as I am concerned he's the Main Man around here as he is much better at talking and writing then I will ever be.

I like to hide in the background and keep things working the best I can.

I have sent him a message to make sure he sees your post

Garry
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Why Am I Here




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Can I hide out with you? :)))
Most certainly ---- Come hide in the back rooms with me

Where in Canada do you live closest city if sufficient if you care to tell us but if you dont , thats fine also .

Mountain time to me represents BC , Oh how I miss the Mountains ( lived in Jasper Alberta for a while and the Yukon )

Have you posted your NDE on the main website or do you have it typed out as everybody enjoys reading them .

we have several regular members here who have had an NDE
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Why Am I Here




One Look Dictionary
I live in Edmonton, the other side of said mountains. I love'm too. Born and raised in Toronto, but left there in 1967.

I posted my NDE on the main site some years ago. It was labeled as "Michael C's" experience.

Which means that my given name is Michael (Hebrew for "Who is like God?")

And light bringer is, in Latin, Lucifer. This is beginning to get a bit weird, even for me.

I am trying to formulate questions about 'light bringers', for my own bed becoming.
That is still in the works. I'll get back to with that in a day or two.
Hi Laoren,

Welcome at the forum.
About 'light-bringer':
My opinion is that all NDErs are people 'bringing light', or showing us what the light is, and where the light comes from. In this respect you are a 'light bringer'. Our world needs them.

Talking about light! Another idea that just hit me.
Why is there shadow?

Well it's because all material things are catching light one way or another, even glass, crystals, water etc... So when I'm walking outside in sunshine and the sun is on my back then I can see my shadow because I'm taking in sunshine e.g. light and keep it (even so some is reflected) and it cannot go through unhindered. Glass, crystal, water etc.. bend light or are slicing it up into different light waves but they still interact with light, so they also produce shadow.
Funny thoughts.
Hi Laoren,

It's good you found us!

There are probably many light-bearers, not only the 'lucifer' in literature. That would be like saying there is only one carpenter in a town, and his name is Charlie. But wait! I'm a carpenter, and my name isn't Charlie!

NDEs often describe beings of light, sometimes a ball of light, sometimes a column, sometimes something with a humanoid shape that seems to be 12 feet tall. Whatever they are, if they are operating in love and they aren't human, what a cool mystery to think about
Hi Misha & Marguy,

Thank you for your kind replies.

I have been thinking about this idea for a few days and at this point I have 'western" questions and "eastern" questions.

Western: What is a light-bringer? How do I know if I am a light-bringer? How can I recognize a light-bringer?

Eastern: From whence might I understand being a light-bringer? Doers it matter if I know I am a light-bringer? (in the Daoist sense that a truly humble person does not know they are humble) How do light-bringers effect/affect others? Do I experience light-bringing in a manifest way? do others, experience me manifestly?

This is going to be SO MUCH FUN!
I would say you're a light-bringer if you are:
showing love and compassion to others
and
helping them to grow spiritually
I have been doing both of those for decades. I guess that I'm in "The Light-bringer Brigade".

Now, where's my damn horse? :)))
So maybe we should call them love bringers, as most NDErs identify The Light with unconditional, unmeasurable, unbelievable, un...,un... LOVE.
No Horse? Damn!!!!! I was looking forward to the horse.

Oh well (sigh)

The un-everything love that is experienced by NDErs and by deep meditators. I am not sure they are identical.

I have experienced both and there seems to be some (of course) ineffable difference. That may just be my ignorance.

Mayhap we can be peace-bringers or the spiritual equivalent of mountain or jungle guides or some such.

I do kinda like being a lucifer, though.
Laroen

Of course I have understand your imagination of horses - for us will be enough, when your heart will just shine through = without horses please, even if I love them. :roll:
OK no horses.
:D
Hi Laoren - It is nice to have you here !!!
It seems to be a very nice place to be.

Looking forward to more conversations - assuming that I can understand what's going on.
Hi Lorean,

I am sure, you know all what do you need to reach the light !!! :D
We will have enough, enough time which we will to spend each other, do not worry - I am also not a superman :mrgreen: .
But, - love, true, responsibility, honesty and light - are my first priorities. :roll:
As my French Canadian friends would say, "Tres Kewl".

So if folks look at me and break into a version of "You Light Up My Life". I should not be surprised. :))

I am beginning to understand what this aftermath is about. The process is quite interesting.
I am now trying to understand the relationship between NDE and Buddhist 'awakening' or Daoist 'realization".

My NDE was when I was a child. My realization (kendo, moksa, satori , bush) was in my 47th year.
Very similar experiences, but simultaneously quite different. I suspect that somehow they are connected, but it is currently beyond me.

The adventure continues! :)
Hi...
The adventure continues! :)

Nice thought - I am sure it is never ending adventure. I am looking for our meeting >> there<< - you are my blood group probably. :D
Do not worry - I will find you... :geek:
Hi Laoren,

My NDE also happened quite young at 8 years old. I'm 59 now. I live in a small village in Nebraska. It was named Dannevirke by the Danish settlers who homestead here. It's just a crossroad now. I love the quiet it offers. Would love to get more familiar with some NDE people. I have moved away from organized religion as well. Their rituals tend to leave me feeling empty. Although, I know some very devout people who attend church regularly, and their faith can be impressive.

Sorry if this message rambles. I like to write---although these brief messages of mine may not reflect it. It seems every time I get creative, and I try to write something worth sharing, then small vignettes of my NDE start coming out. It's like I'm stuck in a loop, and it comes up in conversation a lot when I meet people as well. I have yet to enjoy a good conversation with someone who is knowledgeable on the topic.
Hi KenL,

I also like quiet peaceful places. Can't wait to hear more about your NDE.
Jem7 wrote: Hi KenL,

I also like quiet peaceful places. Can't wait to hear more about your NDE.


Hi Jem7,

Sometimes the peace and quiet gets to be too much though. :o Then I drive to the closest city to order a double cheeseburger! :D
Hi Kent,
I know exactly what you describe.
I suspect that is why the great teachers. Always speak in metaphor and parable.
We are all try go "eff the ineffable".
The Zen and Daoist masters have recognised this quandry for millennia.
I am away from home until Jan. 31.
I am answering from my phone BAH!
I will conect next Sat or Sun.
Do youSkype?
Hi back Laoren!

My Internet connection here in the boonies is a tin can with a string. Skype doesn't work, and my Internet service costs a lot of money. I'm also limited to 10 Gig a month---I can use it all in one day if I'm not careful. So I will gladly wait until you get home. On the 1st of Feb my monthly allotment is full again.
kewl it is intersting how much we resemble each other.

I will send you a picture later
Hi Kenl,

Could you be so kind to write me your story no.: on nderf web ( or if you share it on other wbst ) :?
You can find my NDE ubder no.: 3229 ( archive from 1-1-13 tilll ) :o
Best regards - I think we will have enough time to spek each other - after.... :geek:

CZJ
Hi Kent,

It took me a while to discover how to search the database. I am getting too old for all this internet stuff. :)))

However, I seem to be at:

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experien ... 's_nde.htm
laoren & czjoset,

You both have very good stories. It proves to me that we are all connected. I think my story will be posted eventually, but I want to hear from NDERF first. They don't have all of it yet. In the meantime, I don't mind chatting here. :D
Hi Folks,

I survived my week with my oldest daughter and the subsequent bronchitis.

Back in normal form.

Kent and Mischa, my email is laoren@shaw.ca. Please contact me via email to set dates and time f phone chats and Skype sessions.

Thanks

PS, I have had some 'revelations' about being a light-bringer. :))
Hi Folks,

I may be a lighted-up guy, but my memory is getting like Swiss cheese.
Two of my Zen buddies ( an ordained Zen priest and an almost Zen master) and me the dead guy just published an e-book of zen poetry and art.

The book is available from Lulu.com for $6.00 Canadian.

The title is "The Way of Stubbed Toes and Bruised Knees" Caley, Conesa-Sevilla & Keenan.

Please buy and enjoy - contributing in a small way to our retirements :)

Thanks

laoren
Hi Laoren,

It's been crazy busy recently the last few days, but hopefully it will calm down soon enough to hang out!
No problem. I have nothing but time.

And walking the dog, of course.
Hi Folks,

soory for the hiatus. My wife and I are buying a one in a rural town about an hour south of Edmonton. (its a long story)

Selling our condo and packing has taken up most of our time.

I have had enough time to consider what Mischa said a few posts ago:

"I would say you're a light-bringer if you are:
Showing love and compassion to others
Helping them to grow spiritually"

I suggest that light bearer might be a better description than light bringer. I say this because love and compassion are emergent qualities that a person cannot will from intellect. Spirituality is a flowering that is not under anyone's control. To help someone "grow spiritually" is analogous to helping a rose flower. It cannot be done.

I am working on a short letter that goes into this more deeply. When it is more 'polished". I will post it here.

laoren
Hi Folks,

Here is the note that I have been writing. It was supposed to be a book, but I realized that it does not need to be a book.

THE YEARNING

So, you have followed the dictates of your culture. You have acquired an education and employment. Your significant is your soul mate and your children are the best looking and smartest of your community. You have accepted societies dictates and become a success. Or perhaps, you were born to wealth and position.

Regardless, you are not truly content. Your life may seem like something is lacking. But you cannot put your feelings into words. Perhaps you have a yearning for something inexpressible.

If this description does not resonant with you - stop reading – get a pizza and beer – or your favourite equivalent. If it does resonate with you - keep reading.

These notes are about the very ancient Chinese way of addressing yearning; Daojia, Daoism or The Way. This is the method of “realization”.

Within the Daoist literature (mainly the Dao De Jin and the Zhuangzi), there are frequent references to what roger Ames calls the Wu-forms. These forms delineate the Way to realization. (attaining the Dao in Western parlance). Realization is simultaneously ridiculously easy and arduously difficult.

The simplicity lies and breathing meditation. The difficulty lies in maintaining feeling/awareness during meditation. No one can teach these things, anyone can learn them. No one can do this except you.
Meditation unfolds in three stages.

1. Breathing meditation can be done lying prone, sitting, standing and moving. Meditation develops true physical relaxation and vastly improved health.
2. Mental relaxation can only follow physical relaxation. Mental changes deepen health benefits and release you from pernicious habits.
3. Spiritual flowering is the ineffable result of physical and mental relaxation. It can be experienced but not spoken about.


The Wu –forms:

1. Wu Ming - realizing that the name of a thing is not the thing itself. Korzybski said, “The map is not the territory!”
2. Wu Zheng – not forcing any situation. Zhuang said, “Easy is right, right is easy”.
3. Wu Shin – unmediated thinking/feeling. Emotion and intellect cannot be separated. Real understanding is not predicated on externally derived rules.
4. Wu Shi – undertake all daily activities without contention.
5. Wu Yi – desiring without objectification, fixation or contention.
6. Wu Zhi – unmediated knowing/doing. Maturana & Varela said, “All doing is knowing, all knowing is doing”.
7. Wu Wei – spontaneous, effortless, non-coercive, acting arising from each unfolding situation.

The wu-forms describe the efficacious habits cultivated by Chinese sages over the past 5,000 or more years. Becoming a sage is as easy as cultivating these habits.

For assistance in cultivating the wu-forms: taijicurmudgeon@gmail.com
Firstly we are all light beings.... And we are all spiritual and brilliant once we return! So its like briging ice to the artic i think.

A lot of us have some recall of who we are and we kindda miss it. We have vague feelings, hunches, unsettled times missing our true nature and reality. We know we are more, just cant crack what, how.

But we are here in this material dimension to fight fir survival and on the way learn humility, kindness etc et all

Its known as a very difficult world this one...its a world of competition. Its strenuous. We fight for our first breath and it doesnt stop till we leave.

Hankering after who we are out this world, gets in the way of who we are in here.

Yes by all means spend a bit if time now and again taking a rest from the strain of stress and competition...but know your worth and dont let manipulators feed off you.

Having said that, there are indeed human walking powerhouses.... They bring energy thats easy to use or conflicted to create discord... But they dont even know who they are. They dont have to.
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