Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

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Jem7
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Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by Jem7 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:12 pm

Christians are often suspicious of the near death experience. I hope they will read several dozen (or hundred) NDEs before jumping to any conclusions. It's a complex issue -the real personal meaning of the NDE. You might find ideas that fit, for example, the Bible, and some aspects that do not fit how you interpret the Bible.

It helps when Christians stay polite, and they avoid lecturing using versus after verse. Even though a site like this may seem far-out to people who are visiting for the first time, it is run by intelligent, learned, good, caring people who are not ignorant of scripture. I am no saint, but I have read the Bible from cover to cover at least ten times (new testament dozens of times), and I know others are very aware of Scripture as well. Many who have studied the NDE do not feel a conflict with what NDEs show and basic Christian aspects, ie, love your neighbor as yourself.

Sometimes people quote the Bible when they are criticizing the NDE. That's complicated too. For example, I know much of the Bible (its current form), but I don't know who chose those books and why they rejected many other spiritual manuscripts from the same time period and with similar stories. And I don't know why the text has changed so much over time. For example: "In all the important and earliest extant manuscripts of the Bible – the Codex Vaticanus, the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Syriacus – the last twelve verses of Mark are conspicuously missing. All these manuscripts end at Mark 16:8."

The NIV Bible in its forward states that they always used the earliest most reliable manuscripts and yet adds on the elongated ending to Mark, in direct conflict with the stated methodology in the forward. I was a big fan of that translation, and quite surprised that they make such strange exceptions. I'm not trying to denigrate the Bible, but rather point out that using it in a similar way to, say, a chemistry text book creates all kinds of intricate challenges. It's a reference, but not in the same way for everyone.

It's worth noting that some aspects that appear in NDE accounts (reincarnation, extrasensory perception) are only controversial for a Westerner. In vast swaths of the world, i.e. India, reincarnation has no shock value or controversy. In other areas, i.e. Tibet, the idea that having an unusual experience might sharpen your senses enough to know unusual information, is not controversial in the least. Even in the West, the faith healer shocks the Baptist. It may be best to read the NDE accounts, and to quietly ask our Source (whatever that ultimately may be) for discernment. We are all students learning about issues much bigger than ourselves.

In the end, these debates are not that important to the NDE experiencers. They know what they saw. They are the experts when it comes to their own subjective experience. So, dear Christians, we welcome you! NDE experiencers generally do not proselytize and we ask you to be polite with them as well. Also, please be aware that if you quote the Bible and expect that to authoritatively prove a point, you are making some background assumptions, i.e., it's divine, it's accurate, and the reader accepts its meaning and authority the same way you do. For people, such as myself, who have even memorized large parts of the Bible as part of their journey, just reading it quoted back (as if that where reasoning), is not as interesting as hearing about someone's life experiences and lessons learned the hard way. That, like the NDE experience, is deeply human, personal, instructive and interesting.

One last intriguing point. Several thousand years ago people had some spiritual experiences. Then they were written down (not very quickly, as it turns out). The result, over a gradual process, became our Bible. The stories of NDE experiencers are also [spiritual/mystical/scientifically hard to categorize], and they are now getting written down. Will they be viewed, in a few hundreds years, as something similar to a Bible!? It's hard to say, but let's treat the experiencers with respect. Far too many have visited clergy, only to be told it's made-up, hallucinated, or the devil. How ironic that we believe books over eye-witnesses, flight historians over pilots! In fact, many NDErs have been traumatized by very negative reactions from well-meaning people they thought were their spiritual support. Let's make the NDErs feel welcome. And let's listen to the Christians too! In the end, the truth is probably ineffible, but still worth describing as best as we can.



highland
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by highland » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:50 am

The Sheppard knows his sheep..and they know him.

Who can explain the love between them?

I won't debate your reading skills....reading the Bible 10 times takes tenacity.

Nevertheless....Nicodemus read the Torah daily his whole life yet Jesus told him he did not know the
..difference between the flesh and the Spirit.

I have to suppose it takes God to know Him.

Just as He said in The Bible.

"Without Me you can do nothing"

highland
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by highland » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:28 pm

We All should be flexible....Even those who believe that near death equals death. Or...recognizing while
the reincarnated soul to the Hindu is through The Supreme... to the Buddhists there is no soul or Creator.
Are Buddhists inflexible or only Christians? Are Buddhists correct that God is not supreme? Rather an illusion.
When Hindus say God manifests in millions of gods...while Jews say....God is One are the Hindu right?
When the atheists say there are no spirits is the Christian inflexible? Or does he agree with the faithful believer in NDE..s
That a spiritual world exists! Let us also remember All these religions...faith s...are Eastern.
Middle Eastern to Far East....none are Western as so many seem to miss.

My point....Christians are not the enemy. Nor must they be pigeonholed as such..
When all faiths differ AND sometimes agree on common views.

So how does this Christian "theorize" my faith..for one can only have a theory for we have neither died nor seen the face of God.
Rather we SEE by faith. Faith in our interpretation of those not dead...but near death. We accrue stories from authorities who have either been to heaven or inbetween earth and heaven. Or quite possibly hell. Jesus spoke such stories. Did he not believe His own words?
And was he not wise when He said...we do not die but live eternally?

Now having studied the subject of DNA...Ive come to realize the literal mathematical impossibility of evolution. Scientist would prefer the improbability but do the math and it is impossible. (A good beginners book is Evolution Impossible)....lol...such an appropriate name. Add to that a simple question.."How does the loss of information add to evolution?"..for this is what takes place within the celll over time. Or ask..."when the original bacterium was floating in the super heated soup of dead chemicals exactly who imbued this mindless first life with the DNA to first defend itself...or ingest and excrete waste. Who taught it to replicate? How did the millions of lines of intelligent code enter it and self interpret? The authorities have no clue!

But I do....God.

More to come

Janka

Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by Janka » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:24 pm

:)
It doesn´t matter what kind of religion we believe in.Everyone believes in something.It´s his own conviction.He´s in the right!What does matter is the pure love to someone who are living for.Everyone needs something to adore,otherwise the life is empty.So let your hearts open.

Thanks for your comments!

Janka

dnix71
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by dnix71 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:25 pm

Highland I didn't question evolution until I went to college. Then, after a course in organic chemistry it bcame painfully obvious that the theory was a big crock. Humans are devolving. The current estimate is 1% loss of DNA per generation. At the estimated rate of loss, there are maybe 300 viable generations left. The BIG LIE of evolution is the word "chance." There is no chance. Even the basic laws of physics do not allow for it. Every action is a reaction to a previous on some level. Matter and energy cannot make themselves or organize themselves. "In the beginning, God" is exactly how it happened.

What's also politically inconvenient is that deliberate mixing of people groups by inter marriage actually speeds this process up. Family groups that have been separate for long periods of time will each have a set of uncorrectable mistakes that the environment or culture could tolerate. When they intermarry, the immediately non-lethal mistakes are now doubled in their offspring. 1 +1 =2.

What's worse still, is a technological world discourages people from marrying and having children as young as possible. Because a woman is born with all the eggs she will ever have, the longer she waits to use them, the more mistakes occur from chemical and radiation exposure. It would be really nice for Jesus to come back soon. Things are going downhill in a hurry.

As I get older I am now allowed to see that we are all here for some reason, big or small. I was not allowed to know many of the reasons for me being here in advance because I'm just one of those types who would mess it up if I know too much ahead of time.

Also, the off quoted dogma "it is appointed man once to die and then the judgment" can't mean what some people think it means. There are plenty of biblical examples of people who died and were resurrected and then died again. Many NDE's also explicitly state that "the judgment" was that someone had to go back and do something, because it was appointed to them to do that before they were born.

revlenny
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by revlenny » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:01 pm

I read the Bible allegorically, plus I add a hint of Bill Donahue and a touch of Santos Bonacci; they both resonate with me, and are reaching many, many new ears.

My research has brought me here:-

Jesus - Sun(of G_d)
12 Disciples - 12 Houses of The Zodiac
Trinity - Sun, Moon and Earth

Adam - masculine aspect
Eve - feminine aspect

Satan - ego(lower nature) or Kundalin(serpent)

Easter - based on the Winter Solstice, when the Sun doesn't move for three days - or only a degree or so.
http://www.hiddenmeanings.com/easter.htm
Priests and politicians are the Mafia of the Soul - Osho

Interested in the paranormal ? Then you'll really enjoy this ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NgI3TLtnnI

johnbower
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by johnbower » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:24 pm

REINCARNATION is nowhere explained in Holy Books. It is barely mentioned in fact. Nor given the infinite worlds of God does it make much sense. There are some NDE that seem to indicate reincarnation but there are two people who claim be the same person. How does that work?

There is much theology that discusses reincarnation but not Holy Books. In fact, I can only find one or two quotes and they are from rather obscure books. One would think that such an important doctrine would be well explained but it isn't.

DennisMe
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by DennisMe » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:56 pm

What are you trying to say John?
That reincarnation does not happen because its not in the Bible? Because the Hindu holy books do discuss it, the Tibetan book of the dead, and others? Or do you mean Christian sources in general.
I guess I'm not sure i understand which holy books you mean.

dreamer
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by dreamer » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Some of us that believe in 'parts' of the bible believe Jesus was well aware of 'reincarnation' when he said he would return. Some of us believe he has returned a number of times since then but not as 'Jesus'. I did review Jesus channeled over a year ago and the 3 or so channels and mediums I reviewed all had Jesus say he like us were 'sons of God', and he was not happy with everything they wrote about him in the bible that we currently have. Of course you probably don't believe in channels/mediums but it is just FYI that 'reincarnation' is fairly widely believed by 'intuitives, psychics, channels, mediums, hypnotherapists, etc., people that claim to be able to communicate with 'spirits and spiritual information'.

I have experienced what I believe are 'past lives' through dreams and guided meditations. I freaked out after the first 3 as I was a non believer and said 'where did that information come from', they were general but felt so real and contained a lot of visual and specific information. I certainly never entertained the thought of me living those lives. Lives, that I then believed I would have never chose. There are many meditations on utube and if you want to 'experience' these you can, then decide for yourself what they are.

I have also consulted with 2 hypnotists about regressing people to 'past lives'. Both agreed if a person could be hypnotized they would be able to discuss past lives. Only 1 of the 2 believed they were past lives because he was a Christian although he 'advertised' that he was trained and provided 'past life regressions'. He would not discuss what 'he believed' these were, but agreed it was not provable. He did state that 'his Christian' clients believed they were seeing their 'ancestors lives' not theirs. My specific lives showed my wife was my mother in past lives, my son my father, and I married a current granddaughter in a past life. Very interesting stuff!!! So yes I would remain open to 'reincarnation' but hold to your beliefs and intuition until you have a reason to change your opinion through study, experience, etc..

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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by Garry » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:32 am

Since the beginning of this forum a few years ago there have been so many different opinions of everything that is NDE or spiritually related and I have come to my own conclusion of

It will be what it is as I believe there is more to life than what meets the eye.

So many people are so ( i'm not sure the word to use ) but it makes me want to crawl back into myself and just let life happen and see what happens.

I myself don't have the ability to put words together into properly stated ( politically correct ) paragraphs so it is much easier to sit back with my personal belief and not try to over analyze the whole situation.

As much as I enjoy reading everything I can and not reading some other peoples opinions I am finding the whole NDE thing to have become as I call it ( A Buzz Word )


I am open to hearing other peoples thoughts on this

Garry
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MysterySeeker
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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by MysterySeeker » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:06 am

Garry,

I’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at, but I’ll take a whack at an answer.

You might be relating to what I feel about figuring this all out, as it relates to NDEs, ADCs, etc.

When I came to this board, it was just to share my experiences some. It never occurred to me that people will spend time trying to figure the universe out by discussing many things, including the universe’s goings-on.

I have my Christian beliefs, which I’ve probably shared somewhat in other posts, and nothing I have read anywhere has basically changed those beliefs regardless of my many experiences and exploratory readings.

To me, my experiences are a by-product of my Christian pursuit of God.

The thing is, I cannot verify a lot of the experiences I’ve had, only a small portion of them. So I figure I’ll find out the truth about my experiences after I die, and I’m content to leave it at that.

I’ve read a lot of materials that describe the afterlife for those who inhabit it. There is always a skeptical part of me about anything that is channeled through a psychic though. I tend to believe that the subjective mind of the channeller most likely colors the information received.

I have observed about religion in general that people take what they want from it, and use that knowledge or perspective to evolve, even if, at a later date, their beliefs change. And I suspect that NDEs or psychic information that is received may fall under the same premise.

But I don’t know for sure.

All I know for sure is that praying to God my whole life, and doing my best to be a good Christian seems to have worked for me, so I will continue doing that and hope for the best after I die. :)

Mystery Seeker

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Re: Staying Flexible: The Bible and NDEs

Post by dreamer » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:13 pm

Garry wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:32 am
Since the beginning of this forum a few years ago there have been so many different opinions of everything that is NDE or spiritually related and I have come to my own conclusion of

It will be what it is as I believe there is more to life than what meets the eye.

So many people are so ( i'm not sure the word to use ) but it makes me want to crawl back into myself and just let life happen and see what happens.

I myself don't have the ability to put words together into properly stated ( politically correct ) paragraphs so it is much easier to sit back with my personal belief and not try to over analyze the whole situation.

As much as I enjoy reading everything I can and not reading some other peoples opinions I am finding the whole NDE thing to have become as I call it ( A Buzz Word )


I am open to hearing other peoples thoughts on this

Garry
There is definitely 'more to life than what meets the eye' based on my prayer answers, remote viewing, intuition/psychic, dream, meditation/regression, channel, etc. experiences.

I was brought up in a 'religious' setting where 'truth' and the importance of finding it was 'stressed' ------ or at least given a lot of 'lip service'. Then based on personal experiences including prayers to find 'specific support one way or the other ----- I found out 'that specific religion' was 'wrong' (not totally true)!!! Wow, what a shock to my system!

After getting over the realization that I had been somewhat 'brainwashed' from birth believing something that was clearly not true, I was still intent of 'trying' to find some 'truths'.

Prayer provided me some initial answers and I continue to pray to 'God' each day. However, I wanted to know a lot more and felt 'guided' to what books to read, what meditations to do, etc. etc. I found out there were a number of ways to get answers to questions I had and a lot of help. My experiences multiplied by a large factor by reading and doing things I 'felt' guided to do. I have had 'help and assistance' all my life from the other side/higher self, intuition, etc. and that 'assistance' continues to even a greater extent (or it seems to), but I 'realize and recognize' it much more clearly now ----- it is frequently so subtle most people don't recognize anything. When it is really important you will get it a lot stronger and I have seen visions at that point and/or heard a voice when I wasn't as 'open' to 'intuition/inspiration/etc'..

However, I believed many people 'wanted to find truth' however, I found few really do. Religious people say they always seek 'truth' but how many have studied another religion/other areas indicating 'spiritual experiences' seriously? It is difficult and takes one out of their 'comfort zone' which could impact friends, family,work, and life in general. It initially hurt my marriage when I told my wife of the 'truths' I discovered, then it made it stronger eventually. Additionally, I have met many, having 'miraculous experiences' only to say they basically have no desire to 'seek additional ones'. I understand NDE people with this lack of desire.

I consider myself a 'truth seeker' and an 'experiencer' and seek some 'truth' and some 'experiences' that many will not seek and may never experience. However, everyone is 'wired' differently and so I believe it is all ok whatever a person is 'guided or not guided' to do. I believe what we are 'guided to do/not do' is very important in this life.

Hope that answers the 'question', but not sure.

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