No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

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No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by Terry » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:35 am

Some people report an experience post-resuscitation while most don't. My guess is that everyone had an experience but only some remember it.

I am seeing what looks like a major change in my son who came out of a coma a week ago. He claims no memory since two days before the severe depression episode which drove him to an apparent (evidence-based) suicide attempt. He says he does not feel different and claims he does not have depression, anxiety disorder, or suicidal thoughts. This claim is despite spending $$$$$ over the past two years for psych treatment and one hospitalization for suicide threat.

Before the coma, he was a clinically depressed, anxiety disordered, black market opioid addict (Xanax), stating that he had no desire to live any longer with Type 1 Diabetes because it kept him from his only career choice: the military. He reached coma stage with diabetic hyperglycemia due to spending a day trying to kill himself with the variety of unsuccessful non-opioid depression meds he was stocking up, puking up most of that, texting to borrow a gun, then finally purchasing an intentional overdose of heroine. He could have chosen to take himself out with an overdose of insulin but perhaps some emotional thing against insulin stopped him from choosing that as his weapon. The paramedics said that intentional heroine overdose is a popular way to go.

The person we've been seeing for a week is VERY PLEASANT (major change) and has taken steps to be admitted to nursing school. Nursing school has never been anywhere near his radar. I used to worry about him because he never seemed to have much compassion for other people even when very young.

More of the story that day:

1) His girlfriend does not leave her apartment without being fully put together: hair, professional or cute clothing, and makeup. She had texted him but he didn't answer. She said this did not worry her at all because it has happened many times before. She had showered late in the day and was about to put on her make-up when she found herself grabbing her keys, getting in the car, and driving to his house. She said she was still not worried at this time but seemed to be on automatic pilot. She is the one who called 911 when she discovered him unconscious and barely breathing.

2) Paramedics said that if they had been even 5 minutes later, he would likely have been dead by the time they arrived. There is a drug called Narcan they use to overturn heroine overdose. It acts very quickly, almost like flipping a switch.

3) Despite the save from the heroine overdose, hyperglycemia had him comatose by the time he arrived at the ER. In addition to not taking insulin for a day or two, we wonder if the heroine was diluted with dextrose, powdered sugar, or some other sugar.

4) Hospital personnel told him they were astonished when he woke up from the coma. They said they were going through the motions and waiting for him to die because they had never seen survival of hyperglycemic coma with a blood glucose level as high as his. (He was in protective custody due to the suicide attempt so we had no information and thus didn't suffer through almost 48 hours of waiting for him to die.) According to him, medical personnel were also surprised that he woke up instantly seeming very healthy, asking what happened, and asking for food.

5) My sister had a realistic dream while he was in the coma. She was in her house with her mother-in-law who passed a few years ago. Her mother in-law was there to tell her to not worry as things were fine and as they should be. She woke up due to a noise in the house, then told herself she wanted to go right back into that comforting dream. Attempting to return to a dream has never worked for her or for me, but it worked for her this time. She was right back with her mother-in-law. She said the dream was realistic rather than dream-like.

I somewhat believe in reincarnation but that we don't really understand it because we live on a time-line which does not exist on "the other side". Reincarnation makes sense to me as a working model of physical life. Speaking of reincarnation in human-terms of my ability to think, I take this to the next step in believing my son chose diabetes so that he could not, once again, choose the military. When he was 4, he built what he called a gunboat out of metal parts and a block of wood. When he was 6, his shoe box project was a weapons museum. Nothing at home influenced this as we are Buddhist-like, Christian-raised, and only let him watch Sesame Street and Barney on TV.

A point for reincarnation: When he was at the baby talking gibberish stage, I frequently asked him where he came from and where he was before he was with me. He once popped out with a sentence, a metaphor, and a circling hand gesture - all things this baby didn't yet know from my perspective. He made a circling hand gesture and said, "It's like a circle". Then he went back into baby mode and nothing more happened.

***If - reincarnation is a valid thing, his soul chose a life with a restriction from the military, and he had a coma experience he does not recall.
***Then - his outlook of "life is a bummer because I can't get into the military" leading to drug addiction then ultimately leading to a suicide attempt might create a situation where he was not allowed to remember any of his coma experience, yet it could still change him. If I were in charge of who can and cannot remember, I would not allow him to remember an experience because that could make life here even more difficult considering his negative outlook based on the restrictions diabetes imposes on him. (Aside: "Not allowed" vs. "free will": In my physical life model, the soul is much larger than the part here in the physical. The soul itself can restrict the part. This works for me.)

I do not trust that Son 2.0 will not revert to Son 1.0. Any parent or significant other of a drug addict might get this fear-based reaction, but perhaps it is prudent to not trust such a thing after only one week. If he does indeed become a nurse and hold a job for a long time, I might gain trust in my belief that something happened to him while he was in that coma. I'm throwing this out there with a question: Are there stories of permanent positive change in survivors with no post-death/post-coma memory of an experience? I have not found anything via Google.

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by Giulia » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:09 am

Dear Terry, welcome Image

I have never had a near-death experience, but it sounds as though your son had a really close brush this time. The metaphor I can come up with is that we all sleep and dream, and, based on my own experience, dreaming is not only a way of processing daily events but can involve transpersonal experiences, meeting with our higher/greater selves, seeing things from beyond the linear-time sequence and gaining mystical insights. We do not necessarily remember dreams but this does not mean we do not reap the benefits.

One case of beneficial dreaming even without remembering dreams I usually refer to is the case of bereaved people (including those who do not believe that life continues after death) who, after some time from losing a loved one, start feeling better and less anxious about them. Some people think this is due to the fact that 'time heals'. However, my understanding is that time heals because we live in time, in this physical dimension, and it takes time, sleep and dreaming to gain the understanding that our loved ones are safe and alive, even if this only happens at a subconscious level.

Another point I'd like to make is that not all near-death experiencers remember an NDE the moment they come fully back to physical life. Sometimes it takes years for part of that memory to reach a conscious level. Also, many NDERrs do not disclose their memories until they feel comfortable about it.

What you are reporting sounds like a very positive turn in events and all I can recommend is that you surround your son with love and confidence in his new self. I am quite sure you will be very cautious and make sure he is safe and looked after, but without reminding him of old self-destructive belief-patterns.

I look forward to anyone else's thoughts on this.
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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by Terry » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:43 am

Love your response! It makes a great deal of sense.

I also hope to see more discussion on this thread.

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by DennisMe » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:10 am

There are a lot of experiencers who only remembered their experience years to decades after. There are also a lot of accounts where the experiencer regains progressively more memories after certain life events have passed.
Based on the above its 100% clear to me that there have to be many cases of 'crypto-NDE' where the experiencer is unaware of their experience. Unfortunately its impossible to research this, so there are no real statistics on the numbers.
Some types of medicine can also repress the formation of conscious memories in the brain. Perhaps he was given one of these?
Based on the profound changes you report I would agree, the chances are he experienced an NDE, was cured by a miracle and sent back changed profoundly. In fact the one thing that ties all NDEs and many STEs together is the profound changes they cause to the experiencer. Its hard to prove without conscious memories, but I'm sure this is how it works for a lot of people.

Blocking his own military career by diabetes rings a bell with me. As a child I had memories of watching a ship sinking from the water. I felt great love towards that ship, it was heart-wrenching, and for decades I wished to be at sea. I'd stand on the shore and look out to the horizon with tears in my eyes. Problem is I get seasick easily. I can sail around puddles OK, but when I go off-shore any distance it starts immediately... Wouldn't surprise me if I had arranged this myself to prevent me from re-living some previous life.

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by Terry » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:51 pm

There is no "like button", so: LIKE! Also, crypto-NDE is a great vocabulary word.

Maybe you did indeed plan seasickness.

On the side story of planning your life: Perhaps part of his story and mine put us together. There have been times when I've had two viewpoints at the same time as if I was split into the regular thinking me and a quiet observer in the background who has no anxiety and seems to know more than "I" do. My regular self never planned to get pregnant and didn't want the stress of parenting. The backgrounder made a decision seconds before fertilization: "It is time." Then the backgrounder said "It is done." The regular me didn't think about it again until I discovered the pregnancy. The regular me sure got a whole lot of parenting stress eh! :lol:

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by blue102 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:34 am

This is fascinating, and I'm sorry that I don't have more to offer, but I agree with your thoughts. I love the idea that he chose diabetes to prevent him from getting in the military again. I love this, because I always wanted to be a doctor from a young age. A psychiatrist, specifically. Despite being "highly gifted" with an IQ in the 150s, I struggled in school and every circumstance in the world worked against me. Now life seems to be pushing me in a different direction, one that I never envisioned myself in. "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans," as they say.

My dad was going through a horribly difficult time, emotionally, when I was a teenager. Things were headed in a terrible direction, until one day, at work, he passed out cold. He did not wake up for many hours. Nobody could really tell what happened, but I always thought that his soul must have just fled for a while because he couldn't take it anymore. Things started sorting themselves out in his life after that. It was quite odd really.

In my personal experience I have spotty recollections of talking to a guide or someone while I sleep, when I'm going through a rough time in my life. I can never remember what all was said. So, I certainly believe that most, if not all people, "check in" with their guides upon leaving their bodies, and some remember and some don't. I have another family member who died briefly from a heart attack, and said that he experienced "nothing" as well...

I'm glad that your son survived and experienced a positive change in his life as a result of the episode.

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by Terry » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:13 pm

It would be cool if we could access our Life Plan, assuming there is one of course, and then design our goals and tasks around that. I'm glad you are following the “push” and hope you are not disappointed that it might not be the exact path you would have chosen with your conscious self. Cool story on your dad.

I was born a Biologist at heart, did odd things that most children don’t (observing critters and plants, studying encyclopedias, deciding at the age of 8 that I was going to become a Botanist). I then chose Biology as my formal path of study and had special interests in several areas. The type of work in Biology I would have loved and could do well in would have given me a joyful work life with financial struggles at home. Instead, I followed a path that landed me in work suited to my personality but not a super-bringer-of-joy to my spirit. The path seemed to lead me in my career, so where did the joy go? Did I really follow what seemed to be a guided path, or did I consciously go for more money/less joy because I am too fearful of not having a good income? Was the path actually real guidance because I would need a good income due to the son I would have someday?
blue102 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:34 am
In my personal experience, I have spotty recollections of talking to a guide or someone while I sleep, when I'm going through a rough time in my life. I can never remember what all was said. So, I certainly believe that most, if not all people, "check in" with their guides upon leaving their bodies, and some remember and some don't. I have another family member who died briefly from a heart attack, and said that he experienced "nothing" as well...
This is way cool. I once did “dream work” with a focus on remembering my dreams. It was actually taxing to go through the daylight hours doing all the tricks so I gave it up, but the overall effect was not expected: a great reduction in stress. The only recall I have now is a dream with many people who looked at me without speaking but with a knowing look in their eyes indicating that they knew something I didn’t.

This discussion reminds me of “The Flowers for Algernon” effect:

I avoided super deep study in the more difficult fields of Biology until I had to prepare for my written and oral comps. As I learned more and more and got deeper and deeper into my comp studies, I "saw" how the world is connected. As I got deeper into Molecular Biology, I had to back out because I felt physically overwhelmed by what looked like truths I was not prepared to see. My studies in molecular biology and embryology made me think that the physical world I see must have a lot of falseness in it. I never did really see the truth of photosynthesis but I think I would have to "get" quantum physics to understand that - - -just a guess on my part. In the hours before my comps started, students before me brought flowers (since they knew I wouldn't eat pizza) and said:
[*]"You were a normal person before, but you are a genius at this moment aren't you?" I am.
[*]"You can answer any question about biological life function even if you didn't specifically study that area, because you can see the whole picture of how everything is just one thing, can't you?” I almost can, but I don't really get photosynthesis.
[*]"Here is a written answer for photosynthesis. Everybody memorizes this three-paragraph blurb just before the exam in case a professor asks you to explain. Don't worry that the professors will push you on any answer you give for photosynthesis. We figure they don't get it either." Good to know. Thanks.
[*]"Four days from now you will be back to your normal self. You will remember feeling as if you were a genius. You will remember that you thought you knew almost everything that could be known about how biological life functions. You will remember that you thought everything was tied together, and that a movement of a butterfly wing will actually effect an ocean current, which will effect an air current, which will come right back to the butterfly.” Sorry but you must be wrong. I am not giving this state of mind up. It is way too awesome. I will keep it.

I passed my comps with flying colors, stumbled on nothing, and answered some things in ways the Profs in the room had not considered. Every student before me described a similar experience once we went out to celebrate. Four days later, I was a regular old person again with no knowledge of where she-who-took-that-exam had gone. The students before me were spot on.

Does this "Flowers for Algernon" effect happen post-NDE and post-Dream Training? If so, is the effect less when we don’t recall the training, or is it no different than being fluent in a language with no recall of learning to speak it?

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by dreamer » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:57 pm

Terry wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:13 pm
It would be cool if we could access our Life Plan, assuming there is one of course, and then design our goals and tasks around that.
I certainly agree with that. I believe in 'life plans'. I have heard just try to be open and do what makes you feel a sense of 'accomplishment' and what you 'enjoy doing'. I believe 'few' do not end up in the planned occupation and with your planned spouse and family. As far as planned experiences that would be a mixed bag. Hopefully, what we don't experience in one area we can experience in another of high value to us ------- I believe there are options based on what decisions we make in life. I feel guided and close to my spirit guide but I have tried to get specifics on 'what' I should do in regards to 'life plan' and I have not had much success in getting specifics. I get the 'feeling' it is up to me to do what I 'want to do/feel like doing/experiencing' and my spirit guide is there to help me and guide me but not 'direct' me without me showing some initiative.

I certainly believe I ended up in my planned 'occupation' and made some 'significant?' contributions. It was not the occupation I at first planned, it sort of just came up and I felt 'good' about it. I was 'helped' a lot in the schooling/testing and actual work, throughout my life. Many times I recognized the help but just didn't get very interested in really studying about the 'help' and 'optimizing' it as I do now. That studying has provided me a 'retirement part time occupation' (non pay) in helping others, learning many things, and sharing my experiences. My 'retirement' years have been as long as my working years so never give up in 'accomplishing' what you really 'feel good' about doing.

As far as using 'mental techniques' I totally agree with using them and do use a 'dream' effort that takes very little time, etc. and has worked quite well for me in getting questions answered. I don't try to revert to lessor state though. I have used a number of 'similar things' and I believe these things work as long as you 'remember' to do them and do them routinely. I use at least one form of this every day. Some times I use many in one day depending on what I am doing and if I am not feeling ('great) the way I should always feel. Like I said, once I started studying these type of things to do mentally, etc. I have tried to 'optimize' their use in my life. My life has improved but when I contemplate I see I could use this type of stuff even more to my advantage.

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Re: No NDE, or Unremembered NDE?

Post by Martina » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:21 pm

Just want to say, what a fascinating thread! Thank you for starting it, Terry, and sharing your son's story.
It certainly sounds to me that some kind of teaching/guiding or re-evaluating/taking stock and a subsequent re-adjustment took place while he was in the coma. I think what Giulia said above about dreams does apply - it's not necessary to remember everything for profound changes to occur. I love your thoughts about the diabetes - that he chose it to prevent himself working in the military. It inspires me to look at illness/inflictions in my and my loved ones life from a different angle. Very interesting!

Regarding your son, I have one more thought, although it's a bit 'out there' and I'm not even sure if these things really happen. Assuming they do, it is possible that a so called "Walk in" occurred. This is the event of a soul/spirit taken on the body (incarnating) that is being abandoned (often by suicide) by its previous soul/spirit. This can only happen if both spirits agree to it, but the swap is usually not remembered. Family and friends often report a noticeable and remarkable change in the person regarding outlook on life, interests, plans and goals, personality, preferences, etc. Your son's change in attitude and 180-degree turn in career choice made me think of it as a possibility. Something to ponder ...

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