People unchanged by having a near death experience

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Rey
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Re: People unchanged by having a near death experience

Post by Rey » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:18 pm

In comparison of individuals who experience NDE with coma patients without an NDE, it is found that NDEs can't be considered as imagined events as NDE events are really perceived.


That perceived events in an NDE do not occur in reality, is not consistent with the veridical perceptions that are reported by NDErs. In fact, nearly all "apparently nonphysical veridical perceptions" (AVPs) are verified when checked. Janice Holden (2009) reported that of 93 veridical perception cases in the NDE literature, 92% were completely accurate, 6% were accurate with some errors and only one case was completely erroneous. The AVPs are frequently of objects or events outside the NDEr's physical line of sight or at a distant location from the NDEr's physical body.

Furthermore, previously unknown veridical information received during the "transcendent" part of the NDE (e.g. meeting deceased relatives) is frequently later verified. For example, a man saw and interacted with an apparently deceased person and later found out the man was his biological father who had died in the holocaust (van Lommel, 2010, pp 32-33).

Since the perceived events in fact occurred or accurately conveyed previously unknown information, one cannot conclude that NDE perceptions are hallucinations. If some parts of the NDE events were perceived accurately, where do the NDE perceptions become unreal? If a patient accurately describes the details of operating room events while he had no heart beat or blood pressure, at what point did the other parts of his experience (the tunnel and light) become an hallucination?


Also, assertion that NDE phenomena are neurophysiologically determined, is not consistent with the full spectrum of NDE cases. A number of physiological factors are generally cited in explanations of NDEs (Greyson et al., 2009). None of these factors is adequate to explain NDE phenomena, because (1) the reported physiologically-caused experiences bear only a slight resemblance to NDEs, (2) many NDEs occur under conditions without the suggested physiological factor, and/or (3) in cases where the physiological factor is present, NDEs are not reported in even a large percent of cases.

Furthermore, many NDEs occur during cardiac arrest which results in complete cessation of blood flow to the brain. In these cases, heightened, lucid awareness and thought processes are reported, the same kind of experiences as are remembered by patients in this study (van Lommel, 2010, pp. 159–176). In these NDEs, neurophysiological causes of the core components of the NDE could not have occurred because the brain was not functioning. Veridical perceptions of the onset of resuscitation efforts also establish the time of the experience to be when the brain had no electrical activity.


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DennisMe
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Re: People unchanged by having a near death experience

Post by DennisMe » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:00 pm

I've read a few cases, one is on the NDERF archives, where the experiencer (an atheist) didn't believe it to be real. Don't recall if his beliefs or attitudes were unchanged. Some NDE experiencers report no change in beliefs or attitudes, and from my recollection this doesn't seem to correlate to the type of beliefs they held. Hard work would need to be put in to analyse this from the available data. All the research I know of has a high correlation between NDEs and fundamental life changes. The high divorce rate among experiencers is very indicative of large changes. They change whilst the remaining partner is often unable to follow along with them.

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Re: People unchanged by having a near death experience

Post by DennisMe » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:28 pm

Ask, no I don't recall reading or hearing of any NDE where Jesus was trying to get anyone to become anything other than themselves.
He tends to be accepting and loving of the person as is, leaving value judgments and decisions on what to do with their lives up to them.
If people decide post NDE to 'get religion' it seems also to be their own decision, an attempt to make sense of what they experienced and not an obligation from above.

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Re: People unchanged by having a near death experience

Post by Garry » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:54 pm

DennisMe wrote:Ask, no I don't recall reading or hearing of any NDE where Jesus was trying to get anyone to become anything other than themselves.
He tends to be accepting and loving of the person as is, leaving value judgments and decisions on what to do with their lives up to them.
If people decide post NDE to 'get religion' it seems also to be their own decision, an attempt to make sense of what they experienced and not an obligation from above.
To enhance on what Dennis has said here based on my perspective of the NDE's I have read My conclusion would be that there is no correct or incorrect religion, faith, belief or whatever human words you wish to call it.

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Martina
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Re: People unchanged by having a near death experience

Post by Martina » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:30 pm

Ask21771 wrote:Are there people who have had near death experiences and we're either unchanged or didn't believe them to be real
Yes there are but it is rare. I probably read more than 1000 NDEs on this website (nderf.com) and my estimate (best guess) would be that there are only 1 or 2 % who stated at the end of the questionnaire that they don't believe the experience was real (or ticked "probably not real") or reported they had no major changes in their life and/or attitude post-NDE.

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