Why no negative experiences?

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MobiusX
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Why no negative experiences?

Post by MobiusX » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:27 am

This is about Evidence of the Afterlife. I enjoyed it. Read it years ago and might read it again soon. But what I do not understand is why this book doesn't have any stories of negative experiences when the NDE occurs like going to hell. This does happen a lot. So why not include it in the book? That's the only problem I have with the book. I feel by leaving out these stories it makes it an incomplete study on NDE's. I give this book a 4 out of 5 stars.


[Originally posted in the Book & Information section on 18 Oct 2017, 17:26 #1 2017-10-18T15:26 by MobiusX who joined:18 Oct 2017, 17:15]



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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by dreamer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:44 am

I agree the overall statistics of a certain thing such as NDEs should be disclosed in these books if they are reliable and easy to obtain to be 'fair' to the reader.

However, in my experience with 'spiritual experiences' in various areas, there are basics that a 'high percentage of people' experience and I personally have much more reliance in the 'basics' that 'many' experience.

I have read/studied and had many 'spiritual experiences'. Knowing people with many 'experiences' could be on drugs, have firm world views, etc. that may impact their 'recall of the event', I have significantly less confidence on things 'a high percentage don't experience'. I personally know people who I believe were 'unjustifiably influenced by either drugs or their firm world views. The only exception is where I have personally experienced something most have not. In my study and experiences, it is 'rare' I find anything 'many' people have reported that I disagree with based on my experience in that area or related areas.

I have not had an NDE. However, I have experienced a number of different 'spiritual experiences' and in none of my experiences have I experienced anything to do with any devil, demons, hell, etc. etc. So I personally discount things that the 'majority' do not experience unless or until I can experience it myself.

That is my 2 cents and probably worth about that.

[Originally posted by Dreamer on 19 Oct 2017, 04:49]

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by dreamer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:49 am

MobiusX wrote: But what I do not understand is why this book doesn't have any stories of negative experiences when the NDE occurs like going to hell. This does happen a lot. So why not include it in the book?
I agree any 'scholarly book' on the subject should provide that statistic but as far as cases that is questionable. I do not want to argue but this is a very important subject that should be discussed on a board where people have had access to 'spiritual experiences' and spiritual information.

I just queried that subject and found this: 'Most researchers of the near-death experience (NDE) report that unpleasant cases are quite rare, numbering less than one percent of the thousands thus far investigated and of the eight million tallied by a Gallup Poll during a survey on the subject published in 1982 (Gallup and Proctor, 1982). '

Based on that quote your 'a lot' doesn't appear to be accurate.

Frankly, I discount many 'reported items' that a fairly 'high percentage' of people do not experience, because people's world view is very strong. For example, so many see Mohammad, God, Jesus, Mary, prophets, etc. etc. This does not make sense to me given my 'many' spiritual experiences. if the 'truth' is that 'one' of these is true then that should come out ----I can't comprehend they can all be 'true'.

Based on my 'numerous' experiences, I will 'disagree but be open' with anyone indicating they see the devil, demons or hell. I have personal experience with people making 'unbelievable claims' from 'spiritual experiences where I have reviewed with them and come up with a completely different conclusion.

Truth is very important and I think we can all get it if we are 'interested in getting it'. That means we have to be 'open' and 'ask' through the 'spiritual channels' we have opened. If NDEs are your only channel ----- you should probable seek for different ones, sorry.

[Originally posted by Dreamer on 23 Oct 2017, 02:51]

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by Marguy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:54 am

dreamer wrote:Frankly, I discount many 'reported items' that a fairly 'high percentage' of people do not experience, because people's world view is very strong. For example, so many see Mohammad, God, Jesus, Mary, prophets, etc. etc. This does not make sense to me given my 'many' spiritual experiences. if the 'truth' is that 'one' of these is true then that should come out ----I can't comprehend they can all be 'true'.
Hi Dreamer,
I have translated many NDEs of this site, and as a possible answer to this, I remember that I translated two NDEs where the experiencer was asked how he wanted the contact to appear; would he prefer an old man, an angel, or Jesus, and the experiencer agreed with the appearance of 'Jesus', and he got the appearance of Jesus, resembling a picture that he knew. After this I was thinking that the contacts that people are having at the other side, appear to them in a way that they can deal with, even maybe are they interacting with the other side or are creating it without being aware, to get what comforts them best, to enable them to be open enough for what is happening afterwards.
In the same way considering negative NDEs, most of them started with extreme fear, and it could be possible that this fear 'created' or 'attracted' negative spirits or images.
We are creating our earthly lives here in our mind, why not also at the other side, which is a mental, spiritual world.

[Originally posted by Marguy on 23 Oct 2017, 14:13]

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by dreamer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:01 am

Marguy wrote: the experiencer was asked how he wanted the contact to appear; would he prefer an old man, an angel, or Jesus, and the experiencer agreed with the appearance of 'Jesus', and he got the appearance of Jesus, resembling a picture that he knew. After this I was thinking that the contacts that people are having at the other side, appear to them in a way that they can deal with, even maybe are they interacting with the other side or are creating it without being aware, to get what comforts them best, to enable them to be open enough for what is happening afterwards.
In the same way considering negative NDEs, most of them started with extreme fear, and it could be possible that this fear 'created' or 'attracted' negative spirits or images.
I agree! The ‘spirit world’ wants to be comforting for those returning or visiting! If these ‘various’ contacts are ‘primarily for comfort’ then I can accept that.

My only problem is when religious and non-religious people claim that seeing XXXXX in an experience validates their ‘beliefs’ when no specific ‘introductions’ or ‘discussions occur’ ------- they just seem to know/assume it does. Many of these people go on to write books that are especially marketed to those of their own ‘faith’. However, the contrasting views are at times in ‘direct conflict’ with each other so they cannot be true and directly conflict.

Humans are imperfect and I believe ‘experiences’ can be distorted based on world views, drugs the person is on, etc. so their ability to remember or properly analyze the experience could be impacted.

My experiences tell me ‘spirit’ does not lie. Hopefully, where ‘reported experiences appear to conflict with one’s personal experience or beliefs’ the individual can resolve the issue through a spiritual channel available to them such as ‘prayer, meditation, etc.’ .

I believe persistent ‘truth seekers’ are provided answers by those on the other side, based on my experience.

[Originally posted by Dreamer on 23 Oct 2017, 19:02]

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by Giulia » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:06 am

Hi, MobiusX and welcome
MobiusX wrote: This is about Evidence of the Afterlife. I enjoyed it. Read it years ago and might read it again soon. But what I do not understand is why this book doesn't have any stories of negative experiences when the NDE occurs like going to hell. This does happen a lot. So why not include it in the book? That's the only problem I have with the book. I feel by leaving out these stories it makes it an incomplete study on NDE's. I give this book a 4 out of 5 stars.
Thanks for starting this topic. As mentioned in my private message to you, I have moved the topic out of the 'Book and Information' section, because that area is not really designed for discussion and posts are moderated before being published.

Here, in the 'NDERF - Analyzing NDE Features' section it is easier to follow and contribute to the topic.

Mobius, could you please confirm which book you were referring to in this specific post? I was not sure about this when I moved the post, so I'd rather ask.

@Dreamer, I wish to welcome you too and apologise for not having been as active as I would have liked to with all the interesting contributions you have made since joining.
dreamer wrote:My only problem is when religious and non-religious people claim that seeing XXXXX in an experience validates their ‘beliefs’ when no specific ‘introductions’ or ‘discussions occur’ ------- they just seem to know/assume it does. Many of these people go on to write books that are especially marketed to those of their own ‘faith’. However, the contrasting views are at times in ‘direct conflict’ with each other so they cannot be true and directly conflict.

Humans are imperfect and I believe ‘experiences’ can be distorted based on world views, drugs the person is on, etc. so their ability to remember or properly analyze the experience could be impacted.

My experiences tell me ‘spirit’ does not lie. Hopefully, where ‘reported experiences appear to conflict with one’s personal experience or beliefs’ the individual can resolve the issue through a spiritual channel available to them such as ‘prayer, meditation, etc.’ .

I believe persistent ‘truth seekers’ are provided answers by those on the other side, based on my experience.
I feel the news and other media products provided for entertainment purposes are already so filled with the most horrible and inhuman aspects of human imperfection that if anything comforting and positive is made available, from this side and/or the other side, it is definitely a blessing, though I still miss the name of the specific book that triggered this thread.

Like you, I have had many unusual experiences, and the only drug I might have been on was caffeine, at least in the beginning, when I was a university student. I have had quite a few of unsettling experiences, but these all sprung from the clash between the beliefs my education had led me to and the 'fact' of being free from material restrictions and a physical body. Once I processed the most disturbing information, such as the idea that I and my physical body were one, and that we are all separate beings competing for love and abundance, my unusual experiences became much more comforting and helpful.

I have posted the disturbing experiences here and elsewhere, but I am becoming increasingly cautious about the fact that children can access the Internet far too easily, and - after all - they are my own personal issues, and children need positive examples to inspire them. Of course, children are constantly exposed to violence, but the spiritual struggles an adult can go through when faced with the result of their beliefs and deeds are something that I do not deem fit for them. This is possibly why I have devoted nine years to Sunday Scool teaching to share the most basic positive information and examples I was able to conceive.

In my humble opinion, I see no problem in the existence of many 'beliefs', religions, faiths, opinions and so on, as long as we are aware that they all spring from the same divine wisdom and are not shared with the aim of seeking conflict, frightening or making fun of other people.

I have read several after-death accounts reported through mediums and they include a number of 'hellish' experiences by people who had deliberately ill-treated others, deliberately acted in sadist and evil ways. I have also read a hellish death-bed account which, even though it occurred during a 48-hour period of coma, seemed to last for centuries for the experiencer (a former Nazi who had escorted many many people to the gas chambers). He was able to report it before dying for good and the understanding I gained was that, beyond this physical plane, we all have to report to our own Highest Conscience: as NDErs explain, when this happens, it happens beyond linear time, which can make the unpleasant 'hellish' experience last for what seems ages.

Since there appear to be various types of understanding in our world, ranging from child-like innocence to complex philosophies, I think the worst thing we can really do to each other in spiritual terms is to enjoy the feeling of terrorizing other people with frightening ideas. bullying and making fun of them.

So, to summarise the result of all this, I have come to the conclusion that the best way of dealing with these experiences is 'live and let live'.

I look forward to learning what book it was that you were referring to, MobiusX!

[Originally posted by Giulia on 24 Oct 2017, 10:04]
Hello from Italy - How I found out about NDERF - A Strange Experience

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by DennisMe » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:55 am

One of the problems with reporting statistics is that the reports of hellish experiences are few and its hard to put a solid figure to it.
It's hard enough to talk about a positive NDE, let stand one that can be interpreted as negative. Besides, what for one person is bliss (there are lots of reports by NDErs stating they experienced a void described as comforting) can be hell for another (Nance Evans-Bush wrote a book on this topic "Dancing past the dark").
Long ago I experienced being lifted up into what you could call 'outer space'. It was an STE because I was nowhere near death (AFAIK). Perhaps this could be interpreted as scary if one were to focus on visual queues, rising up above the trees at breakneck speed, a marked change of perspective, being separate from the body, a quickly receding earth, the void of space. But I focuseed on knowing I existed in the Love of God. To me the experience was positive, but then, I don't scare easily!
Dr Pim Van lommel noted someting like 2% negative experiences in his study where all resuscitated heart-attack victims were interviewed by hospitals partaking in the study. This is one way to get rid of biases that would be common when asking people who had an NDE to respond. Even so, he is afraid that the number of distressing NDEs remains underreported and some of them may have fallen in the 'did not answer' category.
From my personal studies NDEs do not support religious dogma of any religion I know of to a significant percentage. Especially not in the cases of specific dogma related to punishment in the afterlife. The one religion that comes closest is Kardecian Spiritism IMHO. Even so its very difficult to get an idea of what matches and to which extent because the experiences are highly subjective despite sharing many common elements.

[Originally posted by DennisMe on 24 Oct 2017, 13:40]

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by dreamer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:58 am

Thanks to Giulia and DennisMe for your 'wise' guidance and information.

All of my 'various' experiences using different disciplines, have been both positive and consistent, so for me I will continue to seek 'non-conflicting truth'. I have studied spiritism to some extent as 'others' on different boards called me a 'spiritist'. I still prefer to have the experiences first then seek what that aligns with. Not all my beliefs align with spiritism but many do.

I do agree, we should be 'open to the possibility of what 'others' experience and as you say 'live and let live' unless we have specifically asked and received or otherwise 'experienced' something that completely conflicts. However, as I said 'humans' with myself included, could fail to analyze the experience correctly. That I believe is what we all must be concerned with when studying these things and searching for truth.

Even though, the 'live and let live concept' may be good for some, I will respect that, but I am not there yet. I will only get there when I get conflicting or negative experiences then validate many others have had 'similar experiences'.

[Originally posted by Dreamer on 25 Oct 2017, 06:55]

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Re: Why no negative experiences?

Post by MobiusX » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 pm

Amongst Kings
Just posting a song about NDE by Nas

phpBB [video]


[Originally posted by MobiusX]

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