Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

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BlissInTheHeart
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Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by BlissInTheHeart » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:50 am

most ndes are in the spirit of a huge excitement.
unforgettable good experiences.
only about 5 or less than 10 percent have bad experiences.
but because not everyone, who comes back, can remember anything, one might ask :
are these NDEs representative ?
can we rely on it, that we are among the 90 percent, when we leave this world?
My guess is : NO

I rely this guess on two observations :
1) in almost every NDE the "soul" is telling only about his own afterlife, not about the afterlife of others. Except one, that i remember from this NDERF database (sorry, i forgot the number :( ) :
here a male soul tells, that he was watching the globe from above, and he saw many (most of the) souls that were dying, leaving the earth, and then they were cought by some devils, but some angels hardly tried to get them away from the devils and lift them up to the Light.

My second " observation" somehow fits with this : a message of Mother Mary in Medjugorje :
2) she said in one of her early messages in the 80s : , that a soul , after dying, decides by "himself", that he is not ready yet ( = not clean enough) to go to the exciting places of the Beyond already. They decide by themselfes to go to purgutory first, to get a cleaning there. She said that the purgatory has several stages, from "almost Heaven" till "almost hell".
After a "while" they will be lifted up by God to enter Heaven.

And ths also fits somehow what the Hindus say (f.e. Aurobindo). They call the purgatory "Vital World", a realm that is associated with the navel chacra. He sais : some souls suffer there, some others not.


Comments / Ideas / counter excamples are very wellcome



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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by DennisMe » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:27 am

Although I'm not a spiritualist, I like the view that Allan Kardec wrote down; that we all automatically end up where we belong because like attracts like.

Personally I believe this has to do with our personal free will (at the spiritual level), which is respected 100% in divine circles by all accounts I have read.

Darkness is not compatible with light. Shine a torch and darkness is gone.
Now imagine a person who identifies part of his or herself with their darkness. By their own free will, they choose to be known as a mean person. How could such a person stand in the light and not be stripped of their "essential" (or so they believe) traits?

Until such a spirit personally decides to relinquish such dark traits, they cannot be subjected to the light, because it would remove some of their personally chosen traits, thus damaging their character and violating their free will.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by InfiniteSpirit » Fri May 11, 2018 1:14 pm

DennisMe wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:27 am
Although I'm not a spiritualist, I like the view that Allan Kardec wrote down; that we all automatically end up where we belong because like attracts like.

Personally I believe this has to do with our personal free will (at the spiritual level), which is respected 100% in divine circles by all accounts I have read.

Darkness is not compatible with light. Shine a torch and darkness is gone.
Now imagine a person who identifies part of his or herself with their darkness. By their own free will, they choose to be known as a mean person. How could such a person stand in the light and not be stripped of their "essential" (or so they believe) traits?

Until such a spirit personally decides to relinquish such dark traits, they cannot be subjected to the light, because it would remove some of their personally chosen traits, thus damaging their character and violating their free will.
While I would agree that 'like attracts like', I would also say that the darkness (shadow) and the light are all part of the infinite whole. In other words, one could ask the question; where does the dark end and the light begin? It's all one continuum and it's really dependent on one's perspective.

Therefore, I don't think that we can simply deny the shadow self while maintaining a strict focus on the seemingly opposite polarity, which we call 'light' and expect that we will only see beauty in our experiences, whether it be on this dense earthly plane, or in the subtle realms. It's all [mind] energy -- a cosmic dance in which our Consciousness plays roles, imagines form, and interprets scenarios. What one person (conscious entity) may interpret as 'dark', another person may interpret the same experience as positive, or their version of 'light'.

Another way to think of it is this; without the action of moving upwards, there can be no experience of moving downwards. The measure with which you move up is the same measure or capacity you have available to move or experience moving down.

The dark is simply another aspect of the light. Where one begins and the other ends is just a matter of [conscious] interpretation. :)

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by ano1 » Sat May 12, 2018 6:35 pm

I have always thought that to entertain the idea of the dark, is to invite it in.
Therefore, I prefer to stay in the light at all times.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by Giulia » Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 am

ano1 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 6:35 pm
I have always thought that to entertain the idea of the dark, is to invite it in.
Therefore, I prefer to stay in the light at all times.
How wise, ano!
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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by InfiniteSpirit » Tue May 15, 2018 12:27 pm

ano1 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 6:35 pm
I have always thought that to entertain the idea of the dark, is to invite it in.
Therefore, I prefer to stay in the light at all times.
I don't think it's necessary to 'invite' darkness in so that you can experience its effects. We can choose to observe the opposite polarity, without getting involved in it or getting it all over us. However, the 'darkness' is already an integral part of each one of us, or the whole, just as the 'light' is part of us. The problem is that we can hide (deny) the presence of the 'darkness' or shadow self very easily while we're condensed in a physical container. But, when we no longer have the physical container to contain our conscious energy bubble ( when we vacate our worn out physical containers upon 'death') we sometimes see what has been really hidden from our conscious awareness since it can more easily become reflected back to us in the subtle realms, where thoughts (conscious and subconscious) manifests around us, instantaneously.

I also think this is why some people report hellish NDEs. It's really their own shadow self being projected onto the virtual astral screen for them to look at and contemplate. If they are aware of their shadow projections, they can shift their consciousness and delete the hellish experiences.

The so called 'darkness' is always there, just as much as the 'light' is always present. Duality is a just perception illusion. It's more vivid in the subtle realms though.

It's a matter of whether or not you're able to perceive this dual nature while still embodied in a physical container, and then master the ability to choose how to interpret and use it for a much higher purpose than that of negativity.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by Giulia » Wed May 16, 2018 3:01 am

BlissInTheHeart wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:50 am
And ths also fits somehow what the Hindus say (f.e. Aurobindo). They call the purgatory "Vital World", a realm that is associated with the navel chacra. He sais : some souls suffer there, some others not.


Comments / Ideas / counter excamples are very wellcome
Hi, Bliss.

Your mention of the navel chakra reminded me of some of the observations reported by psychic and healer Barbara Brennan, who, upon witnessing people's death, found that the root, sacral and solar plexus or navel chakra do not take part in transition, but dissolve and are therefore left behind with the physical body. So I found it curious that purgatory (whose existence was invented by Christians in the 13th century - Not sure about Hindus' beliefs) could be associated with a physical-like life. My guess is that some people like to project physical drama into the Afterlife and imagine all sorts of scenarios which have nothing to do with what Near-Death Experiencers report.

Based on my own personal experience, which includes research on NDEs and some STEs with quite a high score in the Greyson NDE Scale, the reason why NDEs are forgotten is that our physical brain is designed to act as a reducing valve, so as to avoid being inundated by universal consciousness while we are busy living this physical life. I guess the same applies to dreams, which are soon forgotten or even hardly ever remembered unless we make an effort to keep a journal.
InfiniteSpirit wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 1:14 pm

While I would agree that 'like attracts like', I would also say that the darkness (shadow) and the light are all part of the infinite whole. In other words, one could ask the question; where does the dark end and the light begin? It's all one continuum and it's really dependent on one's perspective.

Therefore, I don't think that we can simply deny the shadow self while maintaining a strict focus on the seemingly opposite polarity, which we call 'light' and expect that we will only see beauty in our experiences, whether it be on this dense earthly plane, or in the subtle realms. It's all [mind] energy -- a cosmic dance in which our Consciousness plays roles, imagines form, and interprets scenarios. What one person (conscious entity) may interpret as 'dark', another person may interpret the same experience as positive, or their version of 'light'.
Welcome, InfiniteSpirit. :D

We have an active thread called Hellish NDEs and I see you have provided your contribution. Thanks!
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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by InfiniteSpirit » Wed May 16, 2018 12:17 pm

Giulia wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:01 am
BlissInTheHeart wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:50 am
And ths also fits somehow what the Hindus say (f.e. Aurobindo). They call the purgatory "Vital World", a realm that is associated with the navel chacra. He sais : some souls suffer there, some others not.


Comments / Ideas / counter excamples are very wellcome
Hi, Bliss.

Your mention of the navel chakra reminded me of some of the observations reported by psychic and healer Barbara Brennan, who, upon witnessing people's death, found that the root, sacral and solar plexus or navel chakra do not take part in transition, but dissolve and are therefore left behind with the physical body. So I found it curious that purgatory (whose existence was invented by Christians in the 13th century - Not sure about Hindus' beliefs) could be associated with a physical-like life. My guess is that some people like to project physical drama into the Afterlife and imagine all sorts of scenarios which have nothing to do with what Near-Death Experiencers report.

Based on my own personal experience, which includes research on NDEs and some STEs with quite a high score in the Greyson NDE Scale, the reason why NDEs are forgotten is that our physical brain is designed to act as a reducing valve, so as to avoid being inundated by universal consciousness while we are busy living this physical life. I guess the same applies to dreams, which are soon forgotten or even hardly ever remembered unless we make an effort to keep a journal.
InfiniteSpirit wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 1:14 pm

While I would agree that 'like attracts like', I would also say that the darkness (shadow) and the light are all part of the infinite whole. In other words, one could ask the question; where does the dark end and the light begin? It's all one continuum and it's really dependent on one's perspective.

Therefore, I don't think that we can simply deny the shadow self while maintaining a strict focus on the seemingly opposite polarity, which we call 'light' and expect that we will only see beauty in our experiences, whether it be on this dense earthly plane, or in the subtle realms. It's all [mind] energy -- a cosmic dance in which our Consciousness plays roles, imagines form, and interprets scenarios. What one person (conscious entity) may interpret as 'dark', another person may interpret the same experience as positive, or their version of 'light'.
Welcome, InfiniteSpirit. :D

We have an active thread called Hellish NDEs and I see you have provided your contribution. Thanks!
===========================
Thank you so much, Giulia ! :)

It's great to have found a forum where we can all share some common experiences regarding NDEs, OBEs, the expansion of consciousness, etc., and help each other discover valuable pieces to this grand puzzle that seems to be infinite.

I especially appreciate your response to Bliss about how we tend to take our physical memories and experiences with us when we leave our physical bodies, particularly when we have strong attachments to our physical body and this dense plane. We re-create similar scenarios in the thought/emotional responsive subtle realms.

I really look forward to reading all of the posts and sharing some my own personal adventures in our massive expansion of consciousness!

Thank you again! :D

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by ano1 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm

Infinite spirit: I especially appreciate your response to Bliss about how we tend to take our physical memories and experiences with us when we leave our physical bodies, particularly when we have strong attachments to our physical body and this dense plane. We re-create similar scenarios in the thought/emotional responsive subtle realms.
I can only speak for my experience.. . but I really was not concerned with the physical world while I was gone. I didn't care one hoot what was going one down there.
Not until I was asked if I wanted to 'stay or go back'. Only then, did I look down and feel the emotion of my mother while I was dying...I then, was instanly back.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by Giulia » Wed May 16, 2018 11:17 pm

ano1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm
Infinite spirit: I especially appreciate your response to Bliss about how we tend to take our physical memories and experiences with us when we leave our physical bodies, particularly when we have strong attachments to our physical body and this dense plane. We re-create similar scenarios in the thought/emotional responsive subtle realms.
I can only speak for my experience.. . but I really was not concerned with the physical world while I was gone. I didn't care one hoot what was going one down there.
Not until I was asked if I wanted to 'stay or go back'. Only then, did I look down and feel the emotion of my mother while I was dying...I then, was instanly back.
Yes, InfiniteSpirit. I guess I did not succeed in getting my point across there. What I was suggesting was that it might be us, phyisically on this plane, that tend to project physical drama into the Afterlife by ‘imagining’ scenarios that are physical-like (such fear- and scarcity-based ideas and ‘imagining’ that such notions carry on into the Afterlife). When NDErs come back and remember their experience things sound much more straightforward, as ano1 explained.

It was Barbara Brennan’s phychic observation of how the three lower chakras dissolve and are left behind at time of death that prompted me to suggest that.
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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by InfiniteSpirit » Fri May 18, 2018 11:29 am

ano1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm
Infinite spirit: I especially appreciate your response to Bliss about how we tend to take our physical memories and experiences with us when we leave our physical bodies, particularly when we have strong attachments to our physical body and this dense plane. We re-create similar scenarios in the thought/emotional responsive subtle realms.
I can only speak for my experience.. . but I really was not concerned with the physical world while I was gone. I didn't care one hoot what was going one down there.
Not until I was asked if I wanted to 'stay or go back'. Only then, did I look down and feel the emotion of my mother while I was dying...I then, was instanly back.
====================

Thanks for sharing your experience! Can you point me to where I can read about the totality of it? It sounds really interesting.
I am able to relate, only somewhat, to how you described your attention point becoming totally immersed in a more vivid and vibrant ethereal world and you were, for a little while, not at all concerned with this physical dimension -- that was, until your consciousness shifted to it. Then you reintegrated into physicality. I have visited some dimensions that were so extremely vivid that it made this 3D earth plane look like a [bad] dream, in comparison. As long as I kept my attention on the scene, I could remain. As soon as I shifted my awareness of knowing I was out of body, I found it hard to stay in the higher realms.

When I mentioned the physical attachment to memories and deep rooted habits, and how we sometimes experience them when we vacate our physical body, I was referring to cases where the physical body’s sensory apparatus sometimes ‘leak’ into the astral realms and anchors the astral/emotional body to the lower realms. If you check out the case with Dr. Eben Alexander, I believe he experienced this type of astral anchoring phenomena during his NDE. Perhaps the reason why some cultures burn the physical body three or so days after physical death, is to prevent any possible physical body sensory data leaking/attaching into/to the astral body of the newly deceased. This may serve to assist the consciousness to fully separate from this earthly experience. I do not know for sure, and can only surmise that this may be the reason.

Although I cannot speak about an experience of having had an NDE involving the temporary cessation of cardiac/brain function of a physical body, and hence a total unhindered detachment of my consciousness from my physical vehicle, I can share a little about my experiences with OBEs and how similar they sometimes seem to the many NDE accounts that I've had the pleasure of reading about.

Perhaps we can exchange our unique experiences in order to become more aware of how we create and co-create our reality in the subtle realms (consensus realities), just like we do in this denser plane.

For example, I am wondering if you had been able to hold your conscious attention away from all aspects of this physical experience, and continue to focus your full attention on the world you were in, would you have been able to remain longer where you were?

What I do notice when I am out of body, is that my focus of attention, personal beliefs, deep seated mind patterns, expectations and emotional state all seem to affect my astral journeys. I have also found that if I can shift my attention fully on what I desire, my surroundings do change. If I happen to divert any attention towards my physical body though, I start to feel myself getting heavier and have less control in the ethereal realms. If I do not keep focused away from the body, I come back to it. It seems to me that the less my physical body interferes, the more freedom I have in the subtle planes.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by InfiniteSpirit » Fri May 18, 2018 11:30 am

Giulia wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:17 pm
ano1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm
Infinite spirit: I especially appreciate your response to Bliss about how we tend to take our physical memories and experiences with us when we leave our physical bodies, particularly when we have strong attachments to our physical body and this dense plane. We re-create similar scenarios in the thought/emotional responsive subtle realms.
I can only speak for my experience.. . but I really was not concerned with the physical world while I was gone. I didn't care one hoot what was going one down there.
Not until I was asked if I wanted to 'stay or go back'. Only then, did I look down and feel the emotion of my mother while I was dying...I then, was instanly back.
Yes, InfiniteSpirit. I guess I did not succeed in getting my point across there. What I was suggesting was that it might be us, phyisically on this plane, that tend to project physical drama into the Afterlife by ‘imagining’ scenarios that are physical-like (such fear- and scarcity-based ideas and ‘imagining’ that such notions carry on into the Afterlife). When NDErs come back and remember their experience things sound much more straightforward, as ano1 explained.

It was Barbara Brennan’s phychic observation of how the three lower chakras dissolve and are left behind at time of death that prompted me to suggest that.
==============

Thanks for the clarification Giulia.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by Martina » Fri May 18, 2018 7:29 pm

Hi InfiniteSpirit, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

I snipped your post to focus on these points:
InfiniteSpirit wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:29 am

...

As long as I kept my attention on the scene, I could remain. As soon as I shifted my awareness of knowing I was out of body, I found it hard to stay in the higher realms.

...

For example, I am wondering if you had been able to hold your conscious attention away from all aspects of this physical experience, and continue to focus your full attention on the world you were in, would you have been able to remain longer where you were?
I believe it is indeed the case for OBEs and NDEs that you are able to stay out of the body for longer if you 'forget' the body. I think it works the other way round too - if someone is near dying, being physically touched or spoken to can draw them back into their body.

I remember, my dog died during an operation, his heart and breathing had stopped, and the vet's assistant called me into the operating room where the vet was performing chest compressions. I stepped to the table and touched my dog and said his name - and his heart restarted right then when I did that. I felt very clearly that I had pulled him back, I turned his attention towards his body and he decided to come back because he felt my love.

More generally, I have heard, but I can't remember where, that when someone dies you should not touch them in that moment. It makes sense to me. Touching someone who is in the process of leaving their body could make their attention go back and forth, I would imagine, and be a bit confusing for them and possibly delaying the process.

I'm sorry that my post does not address the question of the original poster, BlissInTheHeart!

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by ano1 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:21 pm

I am not sure what number is mine...I would have to go and look. It was submitted at least fifteen years ago.
InfiniteSpirit: For example, I am wondering if you had been able to hold your conscious attention away from all aspects of this physical experience, and continue to focus your full attention on the world you were in, would you have been able to remain longer where you were?
What I do notice when I am out of body, is that my focus of attention, personal beliefs, deep seated mind patterns, expectations and emotional state all seem to affect my astral journeys. I have also found that if I can shift my attention fully on what I desire, my surroundings do change. If I happen to divert any attention towards my physical body though, I start to feel myself getting heavier and have less control in the ethereal realms. If I do not keep focused away from the body, I come back to it. It seems to me that the less my physical body interferes, the more freedom I have in the subtle planes.
Since my nde I have never traveled out of my body. It was difficult enough to integrate back to living here...the next time I travel away from my body, I hope to stay there.
While gone, I had no need to focus, everything was plainly clear. As I mentioned in an earlier post this place was no longer important to me...I only looked back when questioned if I wanted to 'go back or stay' and early in the experience when I noticed myself down there... but I didn't feel concerned about the situation.

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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by Giulia » Sat May 19, 2018 4:39 am

Martina wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 7:29 pm
I'm sorry that my post does not address the question of the original poster, BlissInTheHeart!
Hi, Martina, that's fine :) .

I started realising a few days ago that this thread was developing into a broader and really fascinating exchange which need not be strictly related to the reason why some people remember NDEs and others don't.

So (I hope this is OK with BlissInTheHeart and you all) I have created a duplicate thread in the OBE section called Journeying across different dimensions, where we are free to continue exchanging views and accounts about all sorts or related ideas, and leave this thread for whoever wishes to provide their input about the original question.
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Re: Why do some people have an NDE , others not ?

Post by Martina » Fri May 25, 2018 1:08 am

Thank you Giulia! :)

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